Topics

St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

Peter, NN9K #2629
 

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

 

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

 

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

 

But what happens in this scenario?

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.

--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.

--Nothing more is heard from station B!

 

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!

I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

 

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.

From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

 

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

 

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

 

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

 

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.


--
Peter, NN9K

JEFF WALSH
 

The contests for me are a form of enjoyment ..... I don't take em too seriously .... I try to get on as much as I can during a contest because I believe I am the only PSK31 station on the air from Mississippi and I know that I can be a multiplier for stations ..... I also believe that as members of PODXS we should support the Club by participating in Club sponsored events ...... I have won a few events over the years .... win lose or draw I have always enjoyed em as a form of relaxation.....not good for the blood pressure to take em too seriously ... hi hi    

JEFF WALSH
W3WMU
#1673
BUBBAWOOD
WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS
STURGIS, MS.


On Sunday, March 22, 2020, 03:32:59 PM CDT, Peter, NN9K #2629 <nn9k.peter@...> wrote:


OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

 

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

 

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

 

But what happens in this scenario?

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.

--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.

--Nothing more is heard from station B!

 

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!

I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

 

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.

From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

 

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

 

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

 

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

 

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.


--
Peter, NN9K

Jerry N9AVY
 

Peter:

 

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this.  Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

 

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain.  Guess my contest days are numbered.

 

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

 

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it.  Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊 

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

 

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

 

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

 

But what happens in this scenario?

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.

--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.

--Nothing more is heard from station B!

 

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!

I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

 

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.

From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

 

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

 

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

 

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

 

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.


--
Peter, NN9K

 

Jim K5SP
 

Wait a minute! One of the great things about our contests, and something that we are proud of, is the fact that they are relaxed laid back events !

Our members know this, and appreciate the lack of pressure to produce high numbers. We think nothing of taking the time to say hello to old friends (I am not saying that you exchange your full information). Many times non members ask for information, and we should take the time to help them, that is how our membership grows.

We DO NOT want our contests to turn into the dog eat dog fiascoes that some CW and RTTY events have become. We, as the premier PSK club stay and operate as gentlemen/women. 

So what if someone gives a little more info than the "suggested" exchange states; it is what helps to make our club unique, and makes our contests more fun. 

My .02

Jim, K5SP 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
Date: 3/22/20 4:01 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

Peter:

 

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this.  Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

 

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain.  Guess my contest days are numbered.

 

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

 

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it.  Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊 

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

 

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

 

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

 

But what happens in this scenario?

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.

--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.

--Nothing more is heard from station B!

 

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!

I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

 

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.

From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

 

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

 

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

 

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

 

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.


--
Peter, NN9K

 


--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director

David, K9DWR
 

This is probably a good time to point out that tone matters in effective communication.

While the point Peter is trying to make is valid; there’s a good way, and a poor way to make it. Using a combative, flame-worthy tone is not going to sway anyone to your side when identifying and trying to correct an issue.

Please think about framing this kind of soapbox in a more constructive manner. It’s sufficient to point out the problem, provide examples of what would be better, and move on. Using phrasing that is effectively name-calling and ranting doesn’t help anyone be better at operating, and potentially scares away people that could be helped rather than berated. If you want better operators, help them be better. Yelling at them helps nobody.


David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@...

On Mar 22, 2020, at 16:01, Jerry N9AVY <@N9AVY> wrote:

Peter:

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this. Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain. Guess my contest days are numbered.

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it. Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊

Jerry n9avy

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.
--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.
--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.
--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

But what happens in this scenario?
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.
--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.
--Nothing more is heard from station B!

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!
I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.
From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC) eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.

--
Peter, NN9K


<26CA46EEC7A840F1861E99CCEB208C47.png>

Brian (N2MLP)
 

ALSO WHEN THERE IS TEN STATION ACROSS THE WATERFALL WHAT IS THE RUSH??

 

========================

         de N2MLP Brian

       Monroe County PA

 

 

========================

 

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim K5SP
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:30 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

Wait a minute! One of the great things about our contests, and something that we are proud of, is the fact that they are relaxed laid back events !

 

Our members know this, and appreciate the lack of pressure to produce high numbers. We think nothing of taking the time to say hello to old friends (I am not saying that you exchange your full information). Many times non members ask for information, and we should take the time to help them, that is how our membership grows.

 

We DO NOT want our contests to turn into the dog eat dog fiascoes that some CW and RTTY events have become. We, as the premier PSK club stay and operate as gentlemen/women. 

 

So what if someone gives a little more info than the "suggested" exchange states; it is what helps to make our club unique, and makes our contests more fun. 

 

My .02

 

Jim, K5SP 

 

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>

Date: 3/22/20 4:01 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: 070Club@groups.io

Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

Peter:

 

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this.  Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

 

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain.  Guess my contest days are numbered.

 

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

 

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it.  Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊 

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

 

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

 

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

 

But what happens in this scenario?

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.

--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.

--Nothing more is heard from station B!

 

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!

I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

 

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.

From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

 

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

 

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

 

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

 

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.


--
Peter, NN9K

 


--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Well stated David.  Could not have said that better my friend.

Dan Morris  KZ3T  070-1065

I live to live for Him!




On Mar 22, 2020, at 5:33 PM, David, K9DWR <david@...> wrote:

This is probably a good time to point out that tone matters in effective communication.

While the point Peter is trying to make is valid; there’s a good way, and a poor way to make it.  Using a combative, flame-worthy tone is not going to sway anyone to your side when identifying and trying to correct an issue.

Please think about framing this kind of soapbox in a more constructive manner.  It’s sufficient to point out the problem, provide examples of what would be better, and move on.  Using phrasing that is effectively name-calling and ranting doesn’t help anyone be better at operating, and potentially scares away people that could be helped rather than berated.  If you want better operators, help them be better.  Yelling at them helps nobody.


David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@...

On Mar 22, 2020, at 16:01, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Peter:

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this.  Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain.  Guess my contest days are numbered.

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it.  Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊

Jerry  n9avy

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.
--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.
--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.
--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

But what happens in this scenario?
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.
--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.
--Nothing more is heard from station B!

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!
I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.
From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.

--
Peter, NN9K


<26CA46EEC7A840F1861E99CCEB208C47.png>








JEFF WALSH
 

Jim ..... I looked up the definition of the word "FUN"

providing entertainment, amusement, or enjoyment

says it all for me .... I change to chit chat mode all the time during the contests

JEFF WALSH
W3WMU
#1673
BUBBAWOOD
WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS
STURGIS, MS.


On Sunday, March 22, 2020, 04:41:55 PM CDT, Dan Morris - KZ3T <dbmorris315@...> wrote:


Well stated David.  Could not have said that better my friend.

Dan Morris  KZ3T  070-1065

I live to live for Him!




On Mar 22, 2020, at 5:33 PM, David, K9DWR <david@...> wrote:

This is probably a good time to point out that tone matters in effective communication.

While the point Peter is trying to make is valid; there’s a good way, and a poor way to make it.  Using a combative, flame-worthy tone is not going to sway anyone to your side when identifying and trying to correct an issue.

Please think about framing this kind of soapbox in a more constructive manner.  It’s sufficient to point out the problem, provide examples of what would be better, and move on.  Using phrasing that is effectively name-calling and ranting doesn’t help anyone be better at operating, and potentially scares away people that could be helped rather than berated.  If you want better operators, help them be better.  Yelling at them helps nobody.


David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@...

On Mar 22, 2020, at 16:01, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Peter:

You’re most likely preaching to the choir here because most PODXS member (should) already know this.  Have said it over & over that contacts must be short and sweet (only required info .. which does not include eye color nor your dogs name).

This contest I put in a couple hours until my hands stopped working efficiently… left hand is the worst and it cramped up so bad I was in pain.  Guess my contest days are numbered.

Didn’t work any new LONPs; so for me contest was a bust.

Maybe if we all keep griping about contest behavior some may get the point, but I rather doubt it.  Wish I had a button on rig that when pushed would out and slap those who aren’t with the program ! 😊

Jerry  n9avy

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter, NN9K #2629
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:33 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

OK I’ll admit it, I’m old, crotchety and the governor says I have to stay in the house! So you can agree or disagree with what I am going to say, but I have to say it!

I would bet that 90% of the folks operating in the St. Pat’s PSK contest have never seriously or semi-seriously contested and it shows. PSK is not a fast mode for making contacts but some operators make it even slower.

There is a rhythm in making contacts in any contest:
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.
--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.
--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.
--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

A definite rhythm to the exchange is established and all the required information is passed in a minimum amount of time, acknowledged and everyone gets a contact point.

But what happens in this scenario?
--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers the CQ with AAA de BBB and sends his information.
--Station AAA acknowledges the information and sends his exchange.
--Nothing more is heard from station B!

So station BBB you didn’t acknowledge the report so you won’t be logged!
I had this happen several times in the St. Pat’s contest as well as in past PODSX070 contests. Station BBB all you did was waste my time.

Let’s talk about the Contest Exchange.
From the rules for the St. Pat’s contest—Exchange: Callsign, RST and State/Province/Country (SPC)   eg: “W9SMR 599 FL”

That is all of the information that needs to be exchanged. I don’t care about your city, grid square, PODXS number or eye color. Sending unneeded information just slows things down!

My two most hated words in a SSB or digital contest: PLEASE COPY. What d0 you think I am going to do with it???

I will admit that any more my contest participation is limited. Hard keeping BIC! Even though I rarely operate PSK outside the PODXS070 contests I do enjoy them, especially the ones with six hour blocks so as long as I am able you’ll see me there.

So agree or disagree with what I have written but as I said in the beginning—I had to say it.

--
Peter, NN9K


<26CA46EEC7A840F1861E99CCEB208C47.png>








Ken Campbell
 

Peter,

Well said, my friend! I try to participate in the contests as time and schedule allows. Contesting is FUN, also a good way to pick up states, countries, grids, counties, etc etc.

Friday evening was too busy with activities around the casa out here on the Left Coast for me to get on the air, but I was on for some time on Saturday morning. Only saw one trace involving the contest, and it was unreadable. Called CQ St Pat’s Contest for quite a while, hoping to make some contest Q’s and maybe pick up some of the final four states I need for my WAS PSK-31 LoTW. Alas, no takers :-(

Oh well, better luck next time, hopefully with better condx!

Praying all the best for all of you out there during this current crisis.

Be prepared, stay well!

Ken Campbell
N6PCD, 070 #801

Richard Rohrer
 

I have to admit that I am in the middle on this topic.  I agree with Peter that the exchange should be kept to a minimum.  I don't need to know what the WX is or what kind of chips are in the station computer.  I also realize that this is not a hard core contest.  I know that I will work about the same 30 or 40 stations that I usually work in a 070 contest, so if an operator wants to say hi I don't see that as a problem.  I guess the important take away is to have fun.  My 2 cents.

73
Dick - KC3EF

Ray Clements
 

If you want to minimize your exchange during a contest, consider doing what the FT-8 folks do. I know many 070 members detest the FT-8 mode, and they have a right to do so. However, because the number of characters that can be transmitted in each FT-8 transmission is so limited, each exchange includes the minimal information that needs to be transmitted. Of course, since FT-8 is an error corrected mode, unlike PSK, there is no need to transmit call signs and exchange information more than once. With PSK, duplicate transmission of critical information is recommended when conditions are less than ideal, which is typical during a contest.

For example, in FT-8, you would call CQ on Field day by sending
CQ FD N9RWC EN52.    FT-8 protocol, unlike PSK,  requires that grid square information be used on the first call.

Jerry N9AVY would answer my CQ with:
N9RWC N9AVY EN52

In PSK, that same transmission might be sent:
CQ CQ FD DE N9RWC N9RWC PSE K. 

The response might be:
N9RWC DE N9AVY N9AVY PSE KN

Although customary in RTTY and PSK contacts, the use of "DE" and "PSE K" and PSE KN is not necessary, but may be useful to end the line if conditions are difficult.

Likewise, how often do you see something like:
N9AVY PSE CPY 1D IL 1D IL DE N9RWC PSE KN

Again, the PSA CPY and PSE KN are not required. 

In FT-8, that would be sent in much simpler form as:
N9AVY N9RWC 1D IL


In FT-8, Jerry would confirm receipt of my exchange and send his own own:
N9RWC R N9AVY 1D IL

Since I called CQ, I would then acknowledge receipt of Jerry's exchange and conclude the call.

N9AVY N9RWC RR73

No response from Jerry is needed to log the contact.

In PSK, you would often see:

N9AVY TU GL IN FD 73 DE N9RWC SK.


I fully appreciate that PSK is a more conversational mode than FT-8; thank goodness for that. Thus, it is easy to switch to typed conversation, even during a contest, if both parties to the QSO agree to do so. It is unnecessary to send added exchange information not required by the contest rules, especially things like station macros and weather reports. Some contest require you send a name, a grid square, a 070 number, a sequence number, etc. If such information is required by contest rules, be sure to include it in the standard exchange so it does not have to be requested.  I always program a macro to request missing exchange information. Please leave out any information not required by contest rules.

Jerry (N9AVY), I know you are not a proponent of FT-8, so I apologize for using you as my example, but I figured you would forgive me sooner or later. Smiley

Ray N9RWC













------ Original Message ------
Received: 09:44 AM CDT, 03/23/2020
From: "Richard Rohrer" <kc3ef@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view


I have to admit that I am in the middle on this topic.  I agree with Peter that the exchange should be kept to a minimum.  I don't need to know what the WX is or what kind of chips are in the station computer.  I also realize that this is not a hard core contest.  I know that I will work about the same 30 or 40 stations that I usually work in a 070 contest, so if an operator wants to say hi I don't see that as a problem.  I guess the important take away is to have fun.  My 2 cents.

73
Dick - KC3EF

Jerry N9AVY
 

DISCLAIMER:  I have never used FT-8 and there are no future plans to do so.   😊 

 

What I generally do is send “CQ (whatever contest) de  n9avy n9avy (2X) k “

 

My exchange is “N9RWC 599 IL  599 IL  QSL ??  de  Jerry  N9AVY K “

 

When Ray gives his info I reply with “ N9RWC  QSL  TU  GL 73 de  n9avy”

 

It might be a tad overkill, but with current conditions it gives Ray the opportunity to get all info and an acknowledgement.   Try to keep it short, but want to give other station a chance to get it all okay. There was an instance this weekend when a station called/worked me 5 minutes later claiming no previous contact earlier.  I went ahead and worked that station a second time because of possible difficulty/QRM at their end.  Went back a struck previous contact from my log , although I Eqsled both contacts.

 

Have been QRMed during contests many times and most are courteous enough to rework contact.

 

A good logging program helps by listing previous contacts when you plug in correct call sign. So that eliminates “DUPES” (duplicate contacts).

 

Ray   no problem with using me as an example, hi hi !

 

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ray Clements
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:40 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

If you want to minimize your exchange during a contest, consider doing what the FT-8 folks do. I know many 070 members detest the FT-8 mode, and they have a right to do so. However, because the number of characters that can be transmitted in each FT-8 transmission is so limited, each exchange includes the minimal information that needs to be transmitted. Of course, since FT-8 is an error corrected mode, unlike PSK, there is no need to transmit call signs and exchange information more than once. With PSK, duplicate transmission of critical information is recommended when conditions are less than ideal, which is typical during a contest.

 

For example, in FT-8, you would call CQ on Field day by sending

CQ FD N9RWC EN52.    FT-8 protocol, unlike PSK,  requires that grid square information be used on the first call.

 

Jerry N9AVY would answer my CQ with:

N9RWC N9AVY EN52

 

In PSK, that same transmission might be sent:

CQ CQ FD DE N9RWC N9RWC PSE K. 

 

The response might be:

N9RWC DE N9AVY N9AVY PSE KN

 

Although customary in RTTY and PSK contacts, the use of "DE" and "PSE K" and PSE KN is not necessary, but may be useful to end the line if conditions are difficult.

 

Likewise, how often do you see something like:

N9AVY PSE CPY 1D IL 1D IL DE N9RWC PSE KN

 

Again, the PSA CPY and PSE KN are not required. 

 

In FT-8, that would be sent in much simpler form as:

N9AVY N9RWC 1D IL

 

 

In FT-8, Jerry would confirm receipt of my exchange and send his own own:

N9RWC R N9AVY 1D IL

 

Since I called CQ, I would then acknowledge receipt of Jerry's exchange and conclude the call.

 

N9AVY N9RWC RR73

 

No response from Jerry is needed to log the contact.

 

In PSK, you would often see:

 

N9AVY TU GL IN FD 73 DE N9RWC SK.

 

 

I fully appreciate that PSK is a more conversational mode than FT-8; thank goodness for that. Thus, it is easy to switch to typed conversation, even during a contest, if both parties to the QSO agree to do so. It is unnecessary to send added exchange information not required by the contest rules, especially things like station macros and weather reports. Some contest require you send a name, a grid square, a 070 number, a sequence number, etc. If such information is required by contest rules, be sure to include it in the standard exchange so it does not have to be requested.  I always program a macro to request missing exchange information. Please leave out any information not required by contest rules.

 

Jerry (N9AVY), I know you are not a proponent of FT-8, so I apologize for using you as my example, but I figured you would forgive me sooner or later. 

 

Ray N9RWC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



------ Original Message ------
Received: 09:44 AM CDT, 03/23/2020
From: "Richard Rohrer" <kc3ef@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

I have to admit that I am in the middle on this topic.  I agree with Peter that the exchange should be kept to a minimum.  I don't need to know what the WX is or what kind of chips are in the station computer.  I also realize that this is not a hard core contest.  I know that I will work about the same 30 or 40 stations that I usually work in a 070 contest, so if an operator wants to say hi I don't see that as a problem.  I guess the important take away is to have fun.  My 2 cents.

73
Dick - KC3EF

 

Mike W4BZM
 

So how is a contest QSO on PSK-31 which minimizes information transferred any different from an FT8 interchange, which so many 070 members seem to detest?

Yes, we can be very efficient in exchanging only the required information and then immediately moving on to the next contact -- but that results in a pretty cold, impersonal contact, similar to the high-pressure contests on SSB.  I have yet to find my scores in 070 contests to be constrained because I took too long in making the contact; rather, it's a problem of finding another new station on the waterfall that I haven't worked yet.  So is it really such a crime to have a little fun with the contest, say "hi' to folks we know?  I'm not talking about exchanging station macros or taking five lines to say 73, but just being friendly.

I think our PODXS contests give us a great opportunity to recruit new members, and we miss valuable opportunities if we are so focused on contest score that we aren't willing to pause and explain/promote the club.   During contests, I often choose NOT to use the suggested CQ  because "CQ __ CONTEST" can intimidate non-members into not even replying back. Even during a contest, I'm always willing to start a rag-chew with a new PSK-31 user, ask him/her if he/she has ever heard of PODXS 070 Club, and start the recruiting process, even if that requires enduring a few macros.  I don't think that shift from contest mode to rag-chew mode clogs up the band for others, as I have never seen a full waterfall except perhaps on Field Day.  So I'd suggest we worry less about minimizing contact interchanges and concentrate on having FUN!

Just my opinion...

Mike W4BZM

B. Smith
 

I agree with Mike. Being able to mix contest and rag chew modes during 070 "activities" requires skill and is attractive to me.
73, Bill N3XL


On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 1:56, Mike
<behrcave@...> wrote:
So how is a contest QSO on PSK-31 which minimizes information transferred any different from an FT8 interchange, which so many 070 members seem to detest?

Yes, we can be very efficient in exchanging only the required information and then immediately moving on to the next contact -- but that results in a pretty cold, impersonal contact, similar to the high-pressure contests on SSB.  I have yet to find my scores in 070 contests to be constrained because I took too long in making the contact; rather, it's a problem of finding another new station on the waterfall that I haven't worked yet.  So is it really such a crime to have a little fun with the contest, say "hi' to folks we know?  I'm not talking about exchanging station macros or taking five lines to say 73, but just being friendly.

I think our PODXS contests give us a great opportunity to recruit new members, and we miss valuable opportunities if we are so focused on contest score that we aren't willing to pause and explain/promote the club.   During contests, I often choose NOT to use the suggested CQ  because "CQ __ CONTEST" can intimidate non-members into not even replying back. Even during a contest, I'm always willing to start a rag-chew with a new PSK-31 user, ask him/her if he/she has ever heard of PODXS 070 Club, and start the recruiting process, even if that requires enduring a few macros.  I don't think that shift from contest mode to rag-chew mode clogs up the band for others, as I have never seen a full waterfall except perhaps on Field Day.  So I'd suggest we worry less about minimizing contact interchanges and concentrate on having FUN!

Just my opinion...

Mike W4BZM

Jerry N9AVY
 

070 contest can be whatever you want them to be.  It’s your choice. 

 

Back when I was in 10-10 Int’l Net contests, we would often stop to chat in the middle of the contest much to the chagrin of die hard contesters. 10-10 was a very friendly group back in those days, but unfortunately many became silent keys or went on to do other things.

 

Contests can be all things to all people.  There are those who are out to win no matter what and those who just want to make a few contacts for the fun of it; plus everything else in between. Some just get into contests to see if they can do better than they did in the last contest. For me, winning has never been a big priority.  Figure that I help make it possible for someone to be “Top Dawg”.

 

Now after having had a stroke last year contesting is getting rougher trying to type with one good hand and ZI make a lot of mistakes which slow me down; so, I want to keep contacts shorter. This last weekend I bailed early because my left hand cramped up and things got more difficult.  Was glad to throw out a few points to the few I worked.

 

 

Jerry  N9AVY

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Mike
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:59 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

So how is a contest QSO on PSK-31 which minimizes information transferred any different from an FT8 interchange, which so many 070 members seem to detest?

 

Yes, we can be very efficient in exchanging only the required information and then immediately moving on to the next contact -- but that results in a pretty cold, impersonal contact, similar to the high-pressure contests on SSB.  I have yet to find my scores in 070 contests to be constrained because I took too long in making the contact; rather, it's a problem of finding another new station on the waterfall that I haven't worked yet.  So is it really such a crime to have a little fun with the contest, say "hi' to folks we know?  I'm not talking about exchanging station macros or taking five lines to say 73, but just being friendly.

 

I think our PODXS contests give us a great opportunity to recruit new members, and we miss valuable opportunities if we are so focused on contest score that we aren't willing to pause and explain/promote the club.   During contests, I often choose NOT to use the suggested CQ  because "CQ __ CONTEST" can intimidate non-members into not even replying back. Even during a contest, I'm always willing to start a rag-chew with a new PSK-31 user, ask him/her if he/she has ever heard of PODXS 070 Club, and start the recruiting process, even if that requires enduring a few macros.  I don't think that shift from contest mode to rag-chew mode clogs up the band for others, as I have never seen a full waterfall except perhaps on Field Day.  So I'd suggest we worry less about minimizing contact interchanges and concentrate on having FUN!

 

Just my opinion...

 

Mike W4BZM

 

Rick - N7WE
 

Hey Jerry-
It was great to work you in the St. Pats - even though we have worked like a gazillion time before!  Keep on keepin' on!  Old friends, new friends - whatever their style, I enjoy 070 contests like no other.  I'll be looking for you in the 31 Flavors.
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602

Stephen Melachrinos
 

> Jerry said "070 contest can be whatever you want them to be.  It’s your choice. "

I think that's the point. Some people may want to chat a little and say hi to an old friend, or offer a welcome to a new one. The trick is figuring out when to say more and when not to.

I'd suggest that unless you really know the person, the decision should really be up to the one who calls CQ. He/she is the one controlling the frequency, and the responder should follow his/her lead. And here's where the exchange sequence (per the original message in this thread) matters. 

Peter postulated the following sequence of exchanges:

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.
--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.
--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.
--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.
--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

In this sequence, AAA is the first to send the formal exchange. If s/he sends only a simple exchange (such as what's listed above), then BBB should reply in kind (only a simple exchange). But if AAA were to send something more like: 

N9AVY de W3HF good to see you again Jerry. 599 PA kn

then Jerry will know it's okay to say "hi Steve. been a long time. 599 IL kn"

The point is that the responders to a CQ shouldn't try to force their desires for QSO format on the one calling CQ, since they are (by definition) the responder. Although I'm usually one to use relatively terse exchanges (though not an absolute minimalist), I'll sometimes chat a bit with a friend, or explain what "CQ 070 TDW" means to someone who might want to join the club. But if I'm running in "terse mode" and someone else goes into "verbose mode" (and tells me everything about his station, including version of OS and what kind of printer is connected, and then sends best wishes to me, my family, my friends, my dog and my mailman) then I'll get frustrated because I'm wasting time when I want to make more contacts (even if they are few and far between). And since I'm the one running the frequency, that should be my choice to make.

Steve
W3HF
(who may be rapidly approaching "old and crotchety" status)

Jerry N9AVY
 

If I get too many QSOs where the guy wants to share his life story, then I get to be a bit curmudgeonly.   Hi , hi !

 

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Stephen Melachrinos via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:09 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] St. Pat's Soapbox--my view

 

> Jerry said "070 contest can be whatever you want them to be.  It’s your choice. "

 

I think that's the point. Some people may want to chat a little and say hi to an old friend, or offer a welcome to a new one. The trick is figuring out when to say more and when not to.

 

I'd suggest that unless you really know the person, the decision should really be up to the one who calls CQ. He/she is the one controlling the frequency, and the responder should follow his/her lead. And here's where the exchange sequence (per the original message in this thread) matters. 

 

Peter postulated the following sequence of exchanges:

 

--Station AAA calls CQ contest.

--Station BBB answers either by sending AAA de BBB or depending on the contest just sends his call BBB.

--Station AAA acknowledges BBB (this is important if more than one station answers the CQ) by sending BBB and the required exchange, turns it back to BBB by sending de AAA or BK.

--Station BBB acknowledges the receipt of the exchange and sends his exchange: QSL exchange and BK or de BBB.

--Stations acknowledges the receipt of BBB’s exchange and moves on: TU QRZ contest.

 

In this sequence, AAA is the first to send the formal exchange. If s/he sends only a simple exchange (such as what's listed above), then BBB should reply in kind (only a simple exchange). But if AAA were to send something more like: 

 

N9AVY de W3HF good to see you again Jerry. 599 PA kn

 

then Jerry will know it's okay to say "hi Steve. been a long time. 599 IL kn"

 

The point is that the responders to a CQ shouldn't try to force their desires for QSO format on the one calling CQ, since they are (by definition) the responder. Although I'm usually one to use relatively terse exchanges (though not an absolute minimalist), I'll sometimes chat a bit with a friend, or explain what "CQ 070 TDW" means to someone who might want to join the club. But if I'm running in "terse mode" and someone else goes into "verbose mode" (and tells me everything about his station, including version of OS and what kind of printer is connected, and then sends best wishes to me, my family, my friends, my dog and my mailman) then I'll get frustrated because I'm wasting time when I want to make more contacts (even if they are few and far between). And since I'm the one running the frequency, that should be my choice to make.

 

Steve

W3HF

(who may be rapidly approaching "old and crotchety" status)

 

 

KB3RAN 1692/381
 


Steve
W3HF
makes a lot of sense.  I will try to do that in my future contests.  I might have 'grabbed' the qso control at times when I worked a station I hadn't seen in a while and said so even when I was the BBB station.  I'll try to be more mindful of that in the future.  I do like to spend a moment even during contests to make a relevant comment like 'glad to see you working your very first PSK contact.'  

I was surprised that I made as many contacts as I did on Sat urday's St Pats Day contest.  Might not be a winner or even a placer, but I had a great time seeing a lot of my 070 friends.

Dave H
KB3RAN
1692/381

--
Dave H
KB3RAN
1692/381