#### Hmmm ?

Jerry N9AVY

Been working the RTTY Contest this weekend and am surprised that 15/20m are open to Europe, Central/South America and Northern Africa.  Worked just about every DXCC in Europe.

So, why are the PSK bands so dead ??? I'm stumped on this one.  On RTTY I saw many call signs I've worked on PSK31 since 2006. Did they all go to RTTY and other modes.   Makes me wonder ???

Just an observation from my little corner of the world...

Jerry  N9AVY

Dennis Kimrey

After the contest is over, you will not see then again for another year.  Always surprises me that during a contest, there are tons of operators.  After the contest, you will hardly hear any RTTY again until the next contest.

Dennis
W0HL

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 02:35:37 PM CDT, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Been working the RTTY Contest this weekend and am surprised that 15/20m are open to Europe, Central/South America and Northern Africa.  Worked just about every DXCC in Europe.

So, why are the PSK bands so dead ??? I'm stumped on this one.  On RTTY I saw many call signs I've worked on PSK31 since 2006. Did they all go to RTTY and other modes.   Makes me wonder ???

Just an observation from my little corner of the world...

Jerry  N9AVY

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

Jerry N9AVY

Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl@...> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

Leland Sly

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

Jerry N9AVY

Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

Leland Sly

Thanks Jerry,

Yes indeed there are those operators who can do 40 WPM, but they are few and far between.  And yes, at that speed CW is a fast mode.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:46 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

And...on CW, regardless of the speed, you can exchange names with the station you're working.
Can't do that with FT8.
Just sayin'...
Milt.
N6MG

-----Original Message-----
From: Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io Group Moderators <main@070club.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Sep 26, 2021 7:54 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

Thanks Jerry,

Yes indeed there are those operators who can do 40 WPM, but they are few and far between.  And yes, at that speed CW is a fast mode.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:46 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint?JohnKC3FL

Ray Clements

There is a CW Ops group that promotes CW. They sponsor a 1 hour CW contest every Wednesday morning. There are participants who are experienced and others who are relativelaly new. I have a friend who participates each week. He normally runs about 35 wpm and has gotten as high as 200 contacts an hour, but 150 contacts is closer to normal. There are some who can easily get over 200 contacts per hour. I am not proficient at CW, so I am not part of that group.

PSK puts all participants potentially on a level playing field. However, to achieve good rates, it is necessary to hold a specific frequency and call CQ. Typically, I work search and pounce as I like to spot stations rather than working everyone who comes along. That reduces my run rates. Also, many PSK operators use the same set of macros in a contest that they use normally. I have even seen some who send a lengthy station macro during a contest exchange. That absolutely kills run rates. In a contest, participants should send the bare minimum exchange of information required to log the contact. The exception to that would be if both parties chose to leave contesting mode temporarily to have a casual conversation using PSK. Thus, a new set of macros needs to be generated for each contest specifying the information needed for that contest....no more, no less.

N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
From: "Leland Sly" <lee.n5sly@...>
To: "main@070Club.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@070club.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

Thanks Jerry,

Yes indeed there are those operators who can do 40 WPM, but they are few and far between.  And yes, at that speed CW is a fast mode.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:46 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint? John KC3FL

Steve WB3LGC

I had a discussion with a fellow a week ago about using wireless keyboard and he didn't want to have a battery die in a contest.  It would "kill" his 250/hr rate if he had to change batteries.  He uses a USB cord keyboard...  and his fingers don't leave the keyboard.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 9/27/21 8:47 AM, Ray Clements wrote:
There are some who can easily get over 200 contacts per hour.

Jerry N9AVY

Ray:

Had an old time CW OP who used to live near me.  He was a WWII radioman who could send at around 50 wpm !  Unfortunately, he had a stroke which slowed him down and he had to use a keyboard. That was the beginning of the end for old Charlie.  He wife sold the house and they moved to an apartment which killed his hobby.  Charlie didn't last long and within a few months he was an SK.  Sad.

When I run across a PSK31 station running "contest style" I have a separate macro just for that which sends "599 IL".  When I operate "W1AW/9" a few years ago, I ran into ops who did what you mentioned and had the same macro for everything. I was operating "contest style" and somehow managed about 800 contacts, but there were a few who drove me up the wall with their long macros. I really didn't need to know their dog's name or their hat size ! I chalked this up to them being newbies and not knowing enough about operating practices/procedures. We all have to start somewhere ...

As I age I get more patient with most folks and myself, hi, hi !

Using MixW I found that there is an expansion where I can generate multiple macros which I use for difference contests. Saves a lot of time as they are customizable.

This weekend I discovered that using both LoTW and Eqsl has a benefit I didn't know about.  As RTTY contest was winding down, lost USB mouse which shut me down and lost at least 2 multipliers.  My Daughter was out shopping and phoned her to ask if she would pick up a USB mouse for me. She came home with a wireless mouse (no USB mice at store !). Quickly got everything up & running, but lost a couple hours.  When I resumed, didn't notice that computer clock was messed up and last half dozen QSOs had wrong times.  This morning I checked both LoTW & Eqsl to verify the facts and thanks to Eqsl those last 6 q's were corrected...yay !!!

Always learning something new !

Jerry  n9avy

On Monday, September 27, 2021, 07:47:29 AM CDT, Ray Clements <r.clements@...> wrote:

There is a CW Ops group that promotes CW. They sponsor a 1 hour CW contest every Wednesday morning. There are participants who are experienced and others who are relativelaly new. I have a friend who participates each week. He normally runs about 35 wpm and has gotten as high as 200 contacts an hour, but 150 contacts is closer to normal. There are some who can easily get over 200 contacts per hour. I am not proficient at CW, so I am not part of that group.

PSK puts all participants potentially on a level playing field. However, to achieve good rates, it is necessary to hold a specific frequency and call CQ. Typically, I work search and pounce as I like to spot stations rather than working everyone who comes along. That reduces my run rates. Also, many PSK operators use the same set of macros in a contest that they use normally. I have even seen some who send a lengthy station macro during a contest exchange. That absolutely kills run rates. In a contest, participants should send the bare minimum exchange of information required to log the contact. The exception to that would be if both parties chose to leave contesting mode temporarily to have a casual conversation using PSK. Thus, a new set of macros needs to be generated for each contest specifying the information needed for that contest....no more, no less.

N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
From: "Leland Sly" <lee.n5sly@...>
To: "main@070Club.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@070club.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

Thanks Jerry,

Yes indeed there are those operators who can do 40 WPM, but they are few and far between.  And yes, at that speed CW is a fast mode.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:46 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint? John KC3FL

Brian Wolf Leverich

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 07:35:30PM +0000, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

Been working the RTTY Contest this weekend and am surprised that 15/20m are
open to Europe, Central/South America and Northern Africa.  Worked just

So, why are the PSK bands so dead ??? I'm stumped on this one.  On RTTY I
saw many call signs I've worked on PSK31 since 2006. Did they all go to RTTY
and other modes.   Makes me wonder ???

Just an observation from my little corner of the world...

Jerry  N9AVY

Part of the problem is PSK31's lack of robustness with respect
to QRO. With RTTY contesting or FT8 or whatnot there are gonna
be a bunch of DX and domestic stations running full legal, and
lots of folks running 100W. And usually, one hopes, those
stations aren't alligators who are all mouth and tiny ears: the
big guns often have Beverages or share apexes or whatever so
they can hear weak signals.

A few hundred big guns can make the airwaves seem densely
populated during the contests. But when we have a bunch of
us little pistols running 30W and without fancy RX antennas,
we just can't hear each other during the solar minimum.

My prediction is that we'll see a lot more PSK activity as
we get further into this solar cycle and the propagation gods
start making it possible to do real DX at QRP and near-QRP
power levels without fancy low-noise high-RDF RX antennas.

I remember the good old days only 7 or so years ago when us
sixers could see lots of PSK63 from EU on our watefalls ...

Cheers, Wolf (WA6I)

Jerry N9AVY

Wolf:

Only ran 50 watts in RTTY test this weekend and made lots of contacts.

What I noted was many DX stations I had worked on PSK31 from 2006 and on. They all jumped ship.

Many RTTY signal were marginal, but I worked them.

jerry  n9avy

On Monday, September 27, 2021, 10:14:18 AM CDT, Brian Wolf Leverich <leverich@...> wrote:

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 07:35:30PM +0000, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

> Been working the RTTY Contest this weekend and am surprised that 15/20m are
> open to Europe, Central/South America and Northern Africa.  Worked just
> about every DXCC in Europe.
>
> So, why are the PSK bands so dead ??? I'm stumped on this one.  On RTTY I
> saw many call signs I've worked on PSK31 since 2006. Did they all go to RTTY
> and other modes.   Makes me wonder ???
>
> Just an observation from my little corner of the world...
>
> Jerry  N9AVY

Part of the problem is PSK31's lack of robustness with respect
to QRO.  With RTTY contesting or FT8 or whatnot there are gonna
be a bunch of DX and domestic stations running full legal, and
lots of folks running 100W.  And usually, one hopes, those
stations aren't alligators who are all mouth and tiny ears: the
big guns often have Beverages or share apexes or whatever so
they can hear weak signals.

A few hundred big guns can make the airwaves seem densely
populated during the contests.  But when we have a bunch of
us little pistols running 30W and without fancy RX antennas,
we just can't hear each other during the solar minimum.

My prediction is that we'll see a lot more PSK activity as
we get further into this solar cycle and the propagation gods
start making it possible to do real DX at QRP and near-QRP
power levels without fancy low-noise high-RDF RX antennas.

I remember the good old days only 7 or so years ago when us
sixers could see lots of PSK63 from EU on our watefalls ...

Cheers, Wolf (WA6I)

Ray Clements

Since I do occasionally operate FT8 when things are not going well on PSK, I use a program called Dimension4 tp keep my PC synchronized with atomic time each hour. With FT8, decoding depends on clocks being synchronized within 1 second of each other and even closer less is better.

I believe LOTW allows clock variations of 30 minutes. Most of the clocks in my home are on Central time (either daylight or standard as appropriate). However, I keep an La Crosse atomic clock at my station that always shows UTC/ GMT. Thus, I can always check to see if QSOs are logging the time properly.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Jerry N9AVY" <n9avy@...>
To: "main@070Club.groups.io" <main@070club.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

Ray:

Had an old time CW OP who used to live near me.  He was a WWII radioman who could send at around 50 wpm !  Unfortunately, he had a stroke which slowed him down and he had to use a keyboard. That was the beginning of the end for old Charlie.  He wife sold the house and they moved to an apartment which killed his hobby.  Charlie didn't last long and within a few months he was an SK.  Sad.

When I run across a PSK31 station running "contest style" I have a separate macro just for that which sends "599 IL".  When I operate "W1AW/9" a few years ago, I ran into ops who did what you mentioned and had the same macro for everything. I was operating "contest style" and somehow managed about 800 contacts, but there were a few who drove me up the wall with their long macros. I really didn't need to know their dog's name or their hat size ! I chalked this up to them being newbies and not knowing enough about operating practices/procedures. We all have to start somewhere ...

As I age I get more patient with most folks and myself, hi, hi !

Using MixW I found that there is an expansion where I can generate multiple macros which I use for difference contests. Saves a lot of time as they are customizable.

This weekend I discovered that using both LoTW and Eqsl has a benefit I didn't know about.  As RTTY contest was winding down, lost USB mouse which shut me down and lost at least 2 multipliers.  My Daughter was out shopping and phoned her to ask if she would pick up a USB mouse for me. She came home with a wireless mouse (no USB mice at store !). Quickly got everything up & running, but lost a couple hours.  When I resumed, didn't notice that computer clock was messed up and last half dozen QSOs had wrong times.  This morning I checked both LoTW & Eqsl to verify the facts and thanks to Eqsl those last 6 q's were corrected...yay !!!

Always learning something new !

Jerry  n9avy

On Monday, September 27, 2021, 07:47:29 AM CDT, Ray Clements <r.clements@...> wrote:

There is a CW Ops group that promotes CW. They sponsor a 1 hour CW contest every Wednesday morning. There are participants who are experienced and others who are relativelaly new. I have a friend who participates each week. He normally runs about 35 wpm and has gotten as high as 200 contacts an hour, but 150 contacts is closer to normal. There are some who can easily get over 200 contacts per hour. I am not proficient at CW, so I am not part of that group.

PSK puts all participants potentially on a level playing field. However, to achieve good rates, it is necessary to hold a specific frequency and call CQ. Typically, I work search and pounce as I like to spot stations rather than working everyone who comes along. That reduces my run rates. Also, many PSK operators use the same set of macros in a contest that they use normally. I have even seen some who send a lengthy station macro during a contest exchange. That absolutely kills run rates. In a contest, participants should send the bare minimum exchange of information required to log the contact. The exception to that would be if both parties chose to leave contesting mode temporarily to have a casual conversation using PSK. Thus, a new set of macros needs to be generated for each contest specifying the information needed for that contest....no more, no less.

N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
From: "Leland Sly" <lee.n5sly@...>
To: "main@070Club.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@070club.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

Thanks Jerry,

Yes indeed there are those operators who can do 40 WPM, but they are few and far between.  And yes, at that speed CW is a fast mode.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:46 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Lee:

A few years ago I was involved with the W9CA contest group. They mostly did Field Day and lots of CW (2 pts per contact as opposed to only one for SSB).   We had some great CW ops who could buzz along at 35-40 wpm - that pretty fast.  The group had a received station feeding QSOs heard on all bands (160-10m) and every CQ that was sent by other was fed to the FD site.  One op was very comfortable at 40 wpm and was taking spots almost faster than they came in.

If you check past scores for 3A  (W9CA)you'll find that W9CA was #1 for about 3 years running.   I wouldn't say that CW is slow...

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 08:18:23 PM CDT, Leland Sly <lee.n5sly@...> wrote:

There are many things to do on HF radio.  Contesting and other groups like Parks On The Air, POTA, are very popular.  The goal is to make as many contacts as possible in the time allotted.  In the case of POTA there is no time limit.  As far as I know 3rd party logging groups....LOTW, eQSLcc, QRZ, etc. only require 6 things to be documented in your log...your call sign, the call sign of the station you contacted, date, time, band, mode.  The only time the signal report may be important is during a contest.

Society today is mostly interested in getting things done quickly...so people gravitate to things that work fast.  In HF radio SSB contacts can be the fastest...closely followed by the digital modes of FT8 and FT4.  Both of those modes are fast and amazingly accurate.  CW on the other hand is rather slow and requires a lot of skill that many people don't have and don't want to invest the time and effort to learn.  Other digital modes are not as fast and not nearly as accurate as FT8 and FT4 therefore folks use them rarely.

I personally like digital modes and work as many as I can.  I really enjoy the POTA program and participate every day either as a Hunter or sometimes an Activator.  As a Hunter I'll look for other stations operating in a park and use whatever mode they are using....except CW...this old man never got good enough to use CW.  As an Activator I'll use SSB because I can start calling CQ and be insured of a pileup that lasts 45 minutes to over an hour.  In that time I can make 50 or more contacts.  I'll then switch to FT8 and make another 40 or so contacts in the next hour.

Last month I did use PSK while Activating a park and it took 90 minutes to make 20 contacts.  I had a lot of fun doing that...but it was slow compared to SSB and FT8.

I really enjoy the PODXS 070 contests because most of them only last for a short time...many 6 hours.  That's perfect for me.  I'll do PSK for 6 hours and really enjoy it.

But if my goal is to make as many contacts as I possibly can as fast as possible I'll use SSB or FT8 or FT4.

Enjoy what you like to do in this hobby.  Having fun is the most important part.

73

Lee N5SLY

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Back to FT modes ???

On Sunday, September 26, 2021, 05:28:56 PM CDT, John - KC3FL via groups.io <kc3fl=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

#### Good observation about ops filling the waterfall during a contest.  The waterfall fills up during our sprints, but it's mostly our group that fills it.  Where do they go after the sprint? John KC3FL

Jeremy Allen

I have tried to run PSK31 from fairly rare locations and it is very frustrating.  Even running a kind of split operation never works too well.  Two stations on top of each other means zero print.  At least with BAUDOT RTTY, I see something that looks like a call sign.  It is also 45 wpm instead of 30.  I tried running PSK31 from both ZD8 and VQ9 but it only lasted a few minutes at a clip before the pileup caused the decoder to shut down.  I switched to RTTY after that and made quite a few contacts.

I actually find that FT8 Q-rates are pretty low.  Each TX/RX iteration is 15 seconds, which seems to be an eternity, and it takes at least 3 cycles for a QSO.  I am not sure about FT4.  Faster CW and RTTY are much quicker, and SSB can be insanely fast given the right circumstances.  PSK31 exchanges can be quick as well if the correct sequence is followed and no one loads a long macro on you.  The inability to deal with QRM is the biggest issue with PSK31 for DX and contesting.  On the plus side, PSK31 is a very comfortable typing speed and great for rag chews at low power.

That's my $0.02 at least. 73 Jeremy N1ZZZ Stephen Melachrinos My experiences were similar to Jeremy's. My VQ9 operations were always difficult, and constrained more by power and signal strength rather than other operators. So I never had good run rates, but mostly because of propagation and not because of too many stations. My KH2 ops were different. I was using a really nice club station with big antennas, so power wasn't a problem. In my case, I actually was pretty successful with split operation, using the "lock receive" function on DigiPan. I left the radio on simplex, and tuned my receive by clicking on the waterfall. I told them to call "100-200 up" and then selected the strong signals that looked clean (and thus not a jumble of QRM). I shift-clicked to decode the past 20 seconds on those clear stations. A quick double-click on the callsign and then a function key transmitted my reply to that station. Good macros would then acknowledge their transmission and "QRZ?" again to repeat. I was able to keep a rate of a little better than one QSO per minute when stations cooperated, though obviously less when people sent "regular" macros. I was pretty pleased with that rate. But I could rarely keep that rate running for more than ten minutes because I ran out of callers. 73, Steve W3HF -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Allen via groups.io <jcaoy@...> To: main@070Club.groups.io Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2021 2:22 am Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ? I have tried to run PSK31 from fairly rare locations and it is very frustrating. Even running a kind of split operation never works too well. Two stations on top of each other means zero print. At least with BAUDOT RTTY, I see something that looks like a call sign. It is also 45 wpm instead of 30. I tried running PSK31 from both ZD8 and VQ9 but it only lasted a few minutes at a clip before the pileup caused the decoder to shut down. I switched to RTTY after that and made quite a few contacts. I actually find that FT8 Q-rates are pretty low. Each TX/RX iteration is 15 seconds, which seems to be an eternity, and it takes at least 3 cycles for a QSO. I am not sure about FT4. Faster CW and RTTY are much quicker, and SSB can be insanely fast given the right circumstances. PSK31 exchanges can be quick as well if the correct sequence is followed and no one loads a long macro on you. The inability to deal with QRM is the biggest issue with PSK31 for DX and contesting. On the plus side, PSK31 is a very comfortable typing speed and great for rag chews at low power. That's my$0.02 at least.  73 Jeremy N1ZZZ

k0cie <karl@...>

I recall a PSK63 contest a few years ago (actually quite a few years ago).  I think it was a trial to judge the interest level. I enjoyed it as the character speed and qso rate was quite similar to RTTY. There is still one sponsored by the Spanish Radio Assn although I have not participated.  Might be interesting to consider a stateside sponsored version. 50 watt maximum power seriously levels the playing field compared to gigawatt RTTY contests and the operating characteristics are very similar.

Ray Clements

PSK63 is a great mode if the bands are in good shape. Because the signal width is 63 Hz rather than 31 Hz, it is not quite as sensitive as PSK31 when the bands are limiting, but when propagation is good, it is a great mode. The nice thing about PSK63 is that it is normally transmitted at the same frequencies used for PSK31. If you see a trace on the waterfall that is twice the width of PSK3, you can easily switch your software decoder from PSK31 to PSK63 and attempt to work the new signal. The QSO will proceed twice as quickly if you are successful in making contact. If you are a decent typist, PSK63 (like RTTY) is a great mode for a rag chew.

PSK125 is an even better mode for contesting, but it sends too fast to be a good mode for conversation unless both operators are excellent typists.

N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
From: "k0cie" <karl@...>
To: "main@070Club.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@070club.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Hmmm ?

I recall a PSK63 contest a few years ago (actually quite a few years ago).  I think it was a trial to judge the interest level. I enjoyed it as the character speed and qso rate was quite similar to RTTY. There is still one sponsored by the Spanish Radio Assn although I have not participated.  Might be interesting to consider a stateside sponsored version. 50 watt maximum power seriously levels the playing field compared to gigawatt RTTY contests and the operating characteristics are very similar.

F.R. Ashley

Hi Jeremy,

I took my rig to Saint Kitts last year and was only able to scare up 2
or 3 contacts on PSK... nobody would answer my CQ!!  Same with RTTY,
zero contacts.  FT8, also FT4 was a different story. So I used those
modes almost all of the time.

73 Buddy WB4M

On 9/28/2021 02:22 AM, Jeremy Allen via groups.io wrote:
I have tried to run PSK31 from fairly rare locations and it is very
frustrating.  Even running a kind of split operation never works too
well.  Two stations on top of each other means zero print.  At least
with BAUDOT RTTY, I see something that looks like a call sign.  It is
also 45 wpm instead of 30.  I tried running PSK31 from both ZD8 and
VQ9 but it only lasted a few minutes at a clip before the pileup
caused the decoder to shut down.  I switched to RTTY after that and