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locked HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review


 

Hi everybody...

This is info on some "Frequency/Mode/Band" usage.

It's copied/pasted here with the written approval of Bernie, W3UR, publisher, of "The Daily DX".


 HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review
> (The following was posted by K1ZZ, Dave Sumner, as an IARU News Release)
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Because frequency allocations and amateur radio operating interests vary in different parts of the world, the development of band plans – voluntary guidelines on the use of the spectrum that is available to radio amateurs – is a responsibility of the three IARU regional organizations. Each of the three Regions has a band planning committee to focus on this work. In recent years there have been increased efforts to bring the regional band plans into alignment wherever possible. Final approval of band plan revisions is generally given by the regional conferences of IARU member-societies that are held every three years on a rotating basis.
> This approach to band planning generally has kept pace with the evolution of amateur radio operating. However, the explosive growth in HF (below 30 MHz) digital modes, particularly FT8, has led to perceived overcrowding of HF digital mode band segments. Accordingly, a working group has been formed consisting of representatives of the three regional band planning committees. This is the first time the three Regions have joined together to directly coordinate band planning efforts.
> The working group has already had fruitful discussions with the WSJT Development Group led by Joe Taylor, K1JT. Additional discussions, including with other HF stakeholders, will be held as part of a fundamental review of the different HF digital modes, and how they can be best categorized and arranged to share the limited spectrum available.
> The main aim is to develop solutions that reduce congestion within very popular mode segments while preventing mutual interference between incompatible modes to the greatest extent possible. While the proposed band plan revisions will have to be approved by member-societies in each Region, recent administrative changes mean that the changes can be implemented without having to wait for the regional conferences.
> Amateurs are encouraged to follow progress through their IARU member-society and the respective IARU websites, all of which can be reached via www.iaru.org.


Jim K5SP
 

And, King Joe T will convince them all that he has millions of users and that there is not enough bandwidth for them; he will point out that much of the PSK operating areas are not as widely used anymore and that is the best portion of the band to allocate to his developed modes.

Yet, the number of FT(insert mode) operators is dwindling because it is boring, provides no operating challenge, or even have the operator present to log that exotic contact. 

Jim

On 8/14/2020 9:59 AM, Milton Garb via groups.io wrote:

Hi everybody...

This is info on some "Frequency/Mode/Band" usage.

It's copied/pasted here with the written approval of Bernie, W3UR, publisher, of "The Daily DX".


 HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review
> (The following was posted by K1ZZ, Dave Sumner, as an IARU News Release)
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Because frequency allocations and amateur radio operating interests vary in different parts of the world, the development of band plans – voluntary guidelines on the use of the spectrum that is available to radio amateurs – is a responsibility of the three IARU regional organizations. Each of the three Regions has a band planning committee to focus on this work. In recent years there have been increased efforts to bring the regional band plans into alignment wherever possible. Final approval of band plan revisions is generally given by the regional conferences of IARU member-societies that are held every three years on a rotating basis.
> This approach to band planning generally has kept pace with the evolution of amateur radio operating. However, the explosive growth in HF (below 30 MHz) digital modes, particularly FT8, has led to perceived overcrowding of HF digital mode band segments. Accordingly, a working group has been formed consisting of representatives of the three regional band planning committees. This is the first time the three Regions have joined together to directly coordinate band planning efforts.
> The working group has already had fruitful discussions with the WSJT Development Group led by Joe Taylor, K1JT. Additional discussions, including with other HF stakeholders, will be held as part of a fundamental review of the different HF digital modes, and how they can be best categorized and arranged to share the limited spectrum available.
> The main aim is to develop solutions that reduce congestion within very popular mode segments while preventing mutual interference between incompatible modes to the greatest extent possible. While the proposed band plan revisions will have to be approved by member-societies in each Region, recent administrative changes mean that the changes can be implemented without having to wait for the regional conferences.
> Amateurs are encouraged to follow progress through their IARU member-society and the respective IARU websites, all of which can be reached via www.iaru.org.

--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Executive Director/Member Services Director


Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

Jim – you took the words right out of my mouth

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: main@070Club.groups.io [mailto:main@070Club.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim K5SP
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 3:43 PM
To: main@070Club.groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review

 

And, King Joe T will convince them all that he has millions of users and that there is not enough bandwidth for them; he will point out that much of the PSK operating areas are not as widely used anymore and that is the best portion of the band to allocate to his developed modes.

Yet, the number of FT(insert mode) operators is dwindling because it is boring, provides no operating challenge, or even have the operator present to log that exotic contact. 

Jim

On 8/14/2020 9:59 AM, Milton Garb via groups.io wrote:

Hi everybody...

This is info on some "Frequency/Mode/Band" usage.

It's copied/pasted here with the written approval of Bernie, W3UR, publisher, of "The Daily DX".

 

 HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review

> (The following was posted by K1ZZ, Dave Sumner, as an IARU News Release)

> ______________________________________________________________________

> 

> Because frequency allocations and amateur radio operating interests vary in different parts of the world, the development of band plans – voluntary guidelines on the use of the spectrum that is available to radio amateurs – is a responsibility of the three IARU regional organizations. Each of the three Regions has a band planning committee to focus on this work. In recent years there have been increased efforts to bring the regional band plans into alignment wherever possible. Final approval of band plan revisions is generally given by the regional conferences of IARU member-societies that are held every three years on a rotating basis.

> This approach to band planning generally has kept pace with the evolution of amateur radio operating. However, the explosive growth in HF (below 30 MHz) digital modes, particularly FT8, has led to perceived overcrowding of HF digital mode band segments. Accordingly, a working group has been formed consisting of representatives of the three regional band planning committees. This is the first time the three Regions have joined together to directly coordinate band planning efforts.

> The working group has already had fruitful discussions with the WSJT Development Group led by Joe Taylor, K1JT. Additional discussions, including with other HF stakeholders, will be held as part of a fundamental review of the different HF digital modes, and how they can be best categorized and arranged to share the limited spectrum available.

> The main aim is to develop solutions that reduce congestion within very popular mode segments while preventing mutual interference between incompatible modes to the greatest extent possible. While the proposed band plan revisions will have to be approved by member-societies in each Region, recent administrative changes mean that the changes can be implemented without having to wait for the regional conferences.

> Amateurs are encouraged to follow progress through their IARU member-society and the respective IARU websites, all of which can be reached via www.iaru.org.


--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Executive Director/Member Services Director


Jerry N9AVY
 

Pretty sure that K1JT is boring egomaniac . His FT modes will go down as one of the worst things to happen to Amateur Radio. Statistics may prove that more FT operators died from boredom. :-)

Jerry

On Friday, August 14, 2020, 02:42:54 PM CDT, Jim K5SP <jinnis@...> wrote:


And, King Joe T will convince them all that he has millions of users and that there is not enough bandwidth for them; he will point out that much of the PSK operating areas are not as widely used anymore and that is the best portion of the band to allocate to his developed modes.

Yet, the number of FT(insert mode) operators is dwindling because it is boring, provides no operating challenge, or even have the operator present to log that exotic contact. 

Jim

On 8/14/2020 9:59 AM, Milton Garb via groups.io wrote:

Hi everybody...

This is info on some "Frequency/Mode/Band" usage.

It's copied/pasted here with the written approval of Bernie, W3UR, publisher, of "The Daily DX".


 HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review
> (The following was posted by K1ZZ, Dave Sumner, as an IARU News Release)
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Because frequency allocations and amateur radio operating interests vary in different parts of the world, the development of band plans – voluntary guidelines on the use of the spectrum that is available to radio amateurs – is a responsibility of the three IARU regional organizations. Each of the three Regions has a band planning committee to focus on this work. In recent years there have been increased efforts to bring the regional band plans into alignment wherever possible. Final approval of band plan revisions is generally given by the regional conferences of IARU member-societies that are held every three years on a rotating basis.
> This approach to band planning generally has kept pace with the evolution of amateur radio operating. However, the explosive growth in HF (below 30 MHz) digital modes, particularly FT8, has led to perceived overcrowding of HF digital mode band segments. Accordingly, a working group has been formed consisting of representatives of the three regional band planning committees. This is the first time the three Regions have joined together to directly coordinate band planning efforts.
> The working group has already had fruitful discussions with the WSJT Development Group led by Joe Taylor, K1JT. Additional discussions, including with other HF stakeholders, will be held as part of a fundamental review of the different HF digital modes, and how they can be best categorized and arranged to share the limited spectrum available.
> The main aim is to develop solutions that reduce congestion within very popular mode segments while preventing mutual interference between incompatible modes to the greatest extent possible. While the proposed band plan revisions will have to be approved by member-societies in each Region, recent administrative changes mean that the changes can be implemented without having to wait for the regional conferences.
> Amateurs are encouraged to follow progress through their IARU member-society and the respective IARU websites, all of which can be reached via www.iaru.org.

--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Executive Director/Member Services Director


David M (AJ4TF)
 

I'm guessing there's a lot of operators that would disagree with you 


Mike W4BZM
 

Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?
 
I can’t help but wonder how many of the critics  of FT8 have actually operated in that mode on a busy day.  Finding an open transmit frequency and monitoring multiple interchanges to “pounce” on a desired station is far from automatic.  Some of the message sequencing is automatic but, unless someone has a better version of WSJT-X software than I do, an operator must always approve any logging of a station and must manually initiate the next call, and often shift transmit frequency during the QSO. It’s not a “turn it on, let it run while you watch football” operation as some would have us think.

Is FT8 my favorite mode?  No.  Do I ever use it?  Yes, when the sunspots are absent, only the legal-limit stations are getting through on SSB, and repeated calls on PSK-31 go unanswered, then I’ll try FT8 because there is always activity there.  It’s designed for use in poor propagation, so why do we criticize those who use it during those conditions?  

I love a good rag-chew on PSK-31, and FT8 doesn’t support that — but JS8 does.  I’ve used it, but it demands a lot of patience.  Yet how many people will also criticize JS8 as “not really ham radio”?

I had a good conversation with N6DBZ recently where he stated “In my years of Amateur Radio, I have seen so many changes and developments, and anything that is communications is fun for a ham radio operator to enjoy”.  The popularity of FT8 must indicate something is there to attract hams and keep them active in the hobby.  Don’t begrudge the mode just because it isn’t your personal favorite.  

OBTW, the IARU effort to develop a band plan for HF digital modes is long overdue.  I have found no clear, authoritative source of information on where we should operate Olivia, MFSK, Thor, Contestia, Hellschreiber, etc.  If such guidance exists, it is well-hidden to most amateurs.  So let’s be glad this effort is underway.

Mike  W4BZM


Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

The point is that Joe and his FT/JT modes took over frequencies that were, by gentleman’s agreement, allocated to other modes.  On 17 meters, he chose the PSK frequency to be his anchor, unilaterally and without discussion or consultation.  Aside from the fact that it was just plain rude, it was not good amateur practice.    

 

I have used most of the FT8 modes just so I could get a feel for what goes on there, and frankly I’d rather watch paint dry while sandpapering my behind.  The fact that people are getting WAS and DXCC operating FT8 is laughable; it requires zero skill and nearly zero operator interaction.  It would have been a great mode for propagation studies – except that many of the stations operating FT8 are running considerable amounts of power.  It is ham radio about 0.1% more than Echolink is; requiring patience does NOT make it ham radio.  RF does NOT make it ham radio.  The OPERATOR makes it ham radio – and FT/JT modes are pretty much devoid of operator inputs. 

 

If you like it – if other people like it – then fine, but your enjoyment should NOT have a negative impact on the enjoyment of others.  We get enough of that from the liberal left.

 

My $2.38 worth.  Flame if you wish, but don’t expect a response.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

 

From: main@070Club.groups.io [mailto:main@070Club.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike W4BZM
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:34 AM
To: main@070Club.groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] HF Digital Mode Band Plan Review

 

Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?

 

I can’t help but wonder how many of the critics  of FT8 have actually operated in that mode on a busy day.  Finding an open transmit frequency and monitoring multiple interchanges to “pounce” on a desired station is far from automatic.  Some of the message sequencing is automatic but, unless someone has a better version of WSJT-X software than I do, an operator must always approve any logging of a station and must manually initiate the next call, and often shift transmit frequency during the QSO. It’s not a “turn it on, let it run while you watch football” operation as some would have us think.

Is FT8 my favorite mode?  No.  Do I ever use it?  Yes, when the sunspots are absent, only the legal-limit stations are getting through on SSB, and repeated calls on PSK-31 go unanswered, then I’ll try FT8 because there is always activity there.  It’s designed for use in poor propagation, so why do we criticize those who use it during those conditions?  

I love a good rag-chew on PSK-31, and FT8 doesn’t support that — but JS8 does.  I’ve used it, but it demands a lot of patience.  Yet how many people will also criticize JS8 as “not really ham radio”?

I had a good conversation with N6DBZ recently where he stated “In my years of Amateur Radio, I have seen so many changes and developments, and anything that is communications is fun for a ham radio operator to enjoy”.  The popularity of FT8 must indicate something is there to attract hams and keep them active in the hobby.  Don’t begrudge the mode just because it isn’t your personal favorite.  

OBTW, the IARU effort to develop a band plan for HF digital modes is long overdue.  I have found no clear, authoritative source of information on where we should operate Olivia, MFSK, Thor, Contestia, Hellschreiber, etc.  If such guidance exists, it is well-hidden to most amateurs.  So let’s be glad this effort is underway.

Mike  W4BZM


Eric KG6MZS
 

Hear! Hear! Mike.

You make excellent points.  I would also add that this isn't a net sum game.  Some of us thoroughly a wide variety of operation on ham radio and all this grousing is really counter-productive to the goal of attracting new people to PSK.

I wonder how many prospective new PSK ops have gotten turned off by some of bad will displayed in here.

I think it is better to talk about what you DO like and keep these grievances to one's self.  I seriously doubt that any of this the complaining is at all productive or is going to buy any RF real estate whatsowver.  Better to spend all the time and energy generating the rails in PSK with friendly, inviting traffic.

Another country heard from

73

Eric

KG6MZS



On 8/15/20 8:33 AM, Mike W4BZM wrote:
Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?


 

Well said neighbor! Let's dwell on what we like, as opposed to what we don't like, and can do nothing about. 

 


1470 <boat.anchor@...>
 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Mike W4BZM wrote:
snip

Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?
 

Mike  W4BZM
Thank you Mike
I was starting to think I belonged to a group that indulged in mode bashing rather than talking up PSK.
Barry

 


Jerry N9AVY
 


Think it all started with comment that many were returning to PSK because that mode which shall not be named was boring.

Jerry n9avy

On Sunday, August 16, 2020, 11:32:36 AM CDT, 1470 via groups.io <boat.anchor@...> wrote:


On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Mike W4BZM wrote:
snip

Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?
 

Mike  W4BZM
Thank you Mike
I was starting to think I belonged to a group that indulged in mode bashing rather than talking up PSK.
Barry

 


Jim K5SP
 

I think that it is time to end this thread.

I most likely was the first to comment.  It appears my comments were misconstrued that I was "bashing" a mode, and that offfended some members. 

My "bashing" was not of a mode, but of the individual that developed the mode/software.  It is actions and lack of regard for other bandwidth users (18.100 as an example), and refusal to communicate when questioned that I find absurd.  If my statement about that individual offended some, for this I apologize, however it is my opinion and will remain my opinion.

For those users of other modes, enjoy operating in any manner you wish. 

73,

Jim K5SP

On 8/16/2020 11:43 AM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

Think it all started with comment that many were returning to PSK because that mode which shall not be named was boring.

Jerry n9avy
On Sunday, August 16, 2020, 11:32:36 AM CDT, 1470 via groups.io <boat.anchor@...> wrote:


On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Mike W4BZM wrote:
snip

Yes, can we please ease off on the FT8 bashing?
 

Mike  W4BZM
Thank you Mike
I was starting to think I belonged to a group that indulged in mode bashing rather than talking up PSK.
Barry

 

--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Executive Director/Member Services Director


David M (AJ4TF)
 

Unfortunately, it's threads like this that are probably going to turn people away from a group.  Rather than espouse the benefits of membership, or of a particular mode,  spending time and energy denigrating others who chose to try different things isn't a good use of that energy, and certainly isn't very attractive behavior for bringing new members into the group, which should be one of the group's objectives.

For what it's worth, I've got lots of call signs in my log that are members of this group, working FT8.  



K7DWI Art
 

Hi all,
I have set this Group to "SPECIAL NOTICES". 

The 070-Contest Group is still set at Full Digest and always will.

Although I do FT8 (Couldn't resist 9 JA's in a row on long distant Es on 10M FT8 on July 20.... hadn't done that in 11 years), I love PSK31 and RTTY too... my favorite is CW.
But when members here start making derogatory and even political statements about other Hams and their interests in this Hobby, there are better places to waste my time. I am retired, I waste my time.
I have enough issues with this mountain to my east :(
I have been doing WSJT Modes since 2001. I found them all boring until FT8. WSPR was okay as another PropNET, but their Website sucked. I never heard any support for PropNET here in this group as I recall.
BTW I have left at least a couple FT8 Groups. Many believe you can't do it without a KW and a longwire ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯
Let's hope we can work this out. I am hearing white noise in too many places. Be respectful, but fight for what is right.
73 Art K7DWI #2518


Ken Campbell
 

“Ya know, those damn tube radio guys are going to RUIN the hobby. Worst thing that ever happened to ham radio.”  Spark gap Operators. 😉
--
All the best,
Ken N6PCD
070 #801
LONP #187