ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)


Jerry N9AVY
 

  • Technician-class operators in Palm Bay and Hollywood, Florida, received Advisory Notices after making more than a dozen FT8 contacts on 40 and 20 meters. Technicians are not permitted to operate on 20 meters and have no data privileges on 40 meters.



Guess some people are learning stuff that should have been on the exam .   Once caught a Tech on 40m PSK where he shouldn't have been.

Jerry  n9avy #454


Barry VA7GEM
 

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 04:24 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
  • Technician-class operators in Palm Bay and Hollywood, Florida, received Advisory Notices after making more than a dozen FT8 contacts on 40 and 20 meters. Technicians are not permitted to operate on 20 meters and have no data privileges on 40 meters.

 
Guess some people are learning stuff that should have been on the exam .   Once caught a Tech on 40m PSK where he shouldn't have been.
 
Jerry  n9avy #454
Jerry
Would there be any penalty imposed?
cheers
Barry


Jerry N9AVY
 

Barry:   

It appears they only received Advisory Notices which are warnings.   Next time they get caught it may go harder.

Jerry  n9avy

On Thursday, June 17, 2021, 06:25:55 PM CDT, Barry VA7GEM via groups.io <boat.anchor@...> wrote:


On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 04:24 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
  • Technician-class operators in Palm Bay and Hollywood, Florida, received Advisory Notices after making more than a dozen FT8 contacts on 40 and 20 meters. Technicians are not permitted to operate on 20 meters and have no data privileges on 40 meters.

 
Guess some people are learning stuff that should have been on the exam .   Once caught a Tech on 40m PSK where he shouldn't have been.
 
Jerry  n9avy #454
Jerry
Would there be any penalty imposed?
cheers
Barry


Stephen Melachrinos
 


Jerry -

That info IS in the Tech question pool: Question T1B10:

Which of the following HF bands have frequencies available to the Technician class operator for RTTY and data transmissions? 
A. 10 meter, 12 meter, 17 meter, and 40 meter bands 
B. 10 meter, 15 meter, 40 meter, and 80 meter bands 
C. 30 meter band only 
D. 10 meter band only

Obviously the correct answer is D. 

Don't blame the test--blame the students who choose not to learn, or just don't care enough to follow the rules.

Steve
W3HF

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
To: main@070club.groups.io <main@070club.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2021 7:24 pm
Subject: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

  • Technician-class operators in Palm Bay and Hollywood, Florida, received Advisory Notices after making more than a dozen FT8 contacts on 40 and 20 meters. Technicians are not permitted to operate on 20 meters and have no data privileges on 40 meters.


Guess some people are learning stuff that should have been on the exam .   Once caught a Tech on 40m PSK where he shouldn't have been.

Jerry  n9avy #454


Jerry N9AVY
 

Steve:

I knew it was on the exam, but obviously they didn't.  Might have been in one of those "Ham In a Day" classes graduates where the memorize just enough to pass exam and forget whatever they may have learned.  Have a problem with those type of classes, but some decent hams might come out of them.

Jerry   n9avy

On Friday, June 18, 2021, 08:47:08 AM CDT, Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io <melachri@...> wrote:



Jerry -

That info IS in the Tech question pool: Question T1B10:

Which of the following HF bands have frequencies available to the Technician class operator for RTTY and data transmissions? 
A. 10 meter, 12 meter, 17 meter, and 40 meter bands 
B. 10 meter, 15 meter, 40 meter, and 80 meter bands 
C. 30 meter band only 
D. 10 meter band only

Obviously the correct answer is D. 

Don't blame the test--blame the students who choose not to learn, or just don't care enough to follow the rules.

Steve
W3HF

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
To: main@070club.groups.io <main@070club.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2021 7:24 pm
Subject: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

  • Technician-class operators in Palm Bay and Hollywood, Florida, received Advisory Notices after making more than a dozen FT8 contacts on 40 and 20 meters. Technicians are not permitted to operate on 20 meters and have no data privileges on 40 meters.


Guess some people are learning stuff that should have been on the exam .   Once caught a Tech on 40m PSK where he shouldn't have been.

Jerry  n9avy #454


K7DWI Art
 

I hate to say this, but some of the rudest, dumbest and useless FT8 operators I have experienced here in Southern Oregon hold an Extra Class license.
Each week I am amazed how long these guys just call CQ.
On 6 Meters the record is one and a half hours, on 10 Meters an hour and 20 minutes.

I rarely call CQ. I was told you answer CQs or tail-end existing QSO's  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much have done that since 1979. I don't have 300 DXCC to my credit, but very few enemies in this hobby.
I will call when the band is open and no one's home, or a couple of short ones to see is the band it open.
I spend more time listening.

No doubt courtesy has been long gone.

73 Art K7DWI #2518


Jerry N9AVY
 

Art:

The few years I was an Official Observer (retired from that), I noticed most of the Notices I sent out were for Extras. That's not to criticize Extras, but I think some operators get sloppy in the habits and don't pay attention. 

Had one operator I knew who should have been cited, but since I knew him for many years I decided to landline him that he was splattering over 50 kHz. on the band.  He agreed to turn his power down and I left it at that.  Next day he was back to splattering 50 Khz or more. Just let it go and did nothing because I knew another OO would be on his case. He was in AZ and I'm in IL.  Yes, I also violated protocol for a "friend" because is never made other than by mail.

Older and smarter and just don't care any longer...

Jerry  N9AVY   #454

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 05:08:26 PM CDT, K7DWI Art <k7dwicn82@...> wrote:


I hate to say this, but some of the rudest, dumbest and useless FT8 operators I have experienced here in Southern Oregon hold an Extra Class license.
Each week I am amazed how long these guys just call CQ.
On 6 Meters the record is one and a half hours, on 10 Meters an hour and 20 minutes.

I rarely call CQ. I was told you answer CQs or tail-end existing QSO's  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much have done that since 1979. I don't have 300 DXCC to my credit, but very few enemies in this hobby.
I will call when the band is open and no one's home, or a couple of short ones to see is the band it open.
I spend more time listening.

No doubt courtesy has been long gone.

73 Art K7DWI #2518


Stephen Melachrinos
 

Art -

Question: how do you know if a band is open if you don't see/hear any signals? Someone has to call CQ! If no one makes their presence known by calling CQ, then no one can respond (to a CQ), and there will be no QSOs for anyone to tail-end!

You didn't say if the band was crowded, but I highly doubt that on 6m unless it's a contest weekend or there's extraordinary propagation. And in those cases, "running a frequency" is considered an appropriate usage. And especially on 6m and 10m, where propagation changes minute to minute so you want to keep a signal on the air to catch those changes. (I saw that on 10m two weeks ago during the TDW--signals went up and down in the time it took to make a single QSO.)

If the band isn't crowded, then I don't consider someone calling CQ for a long time to be rude. Maybe it's fruitless, or a waste of time, or a waste of electrons. He's probably just looking for band openings that come and go. But if he isn't QRMing someone then it isn't rude in my book.

Just another opinion...

73,
Steve
W3HF


-----Original Message-----
From: K7DWI Art <k7dwicn82@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

I hate to say this, but some of the rudest, dumbest and useless FT8 operators I have experienced here in Southern Oregon hold an Extra Class license.
Each week I am amazed how long these guys just call CQ.
On 6 Meters the record is one and a half hours, on 10 Meters an hour and 20 minutes.
I rarely call CQ. I was told you answer CQs or tail-end existing QSO's  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much have done that since 1979. I don't have 300 DXCC to my credit, but very few enemies in this hobby.
I will call when the band is open and no one's home, or a couple of short ones to see is the band it open.
I spend more time listening.
No doubt courtesy has been long gone.
73 Art K7DWI #2518


Stephen Melachrinos
 

One supplement: maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "how long these people call CQ." I interpreted that as total duration of multiple individual CQs. If you meant a continuous key-down, then I agree with you.

I could understand something like five separate CQ transmissions per minute, separated by listening time (to hear replies). That could be 300 separate transmissions in an hour, with 300 separate listening periods. I would call this "repeatedly calling CQ."

But if the station calls CQ continuously (not repeatedly) without listening, then you are absolutely correct. And I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

BTW, I think it's more efficient to send repeated CQs in general. In PSK-speak, I much prefer:

Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)
Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)
Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)

rather than:

Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF 
CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF
CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)

Steve
W3HF

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io <melachri@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io <main@070Club.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

Art -

Question: how do you know if a band is open if you don't see/hear any signals? Someone has to call CQ! If no one makes their presence known by calling CQ, then no one can respond (to a CQ), and there will be no QSOs for anyone to tail-end!

You didn't say if the band was crowded, but I highly doubt that on 6m unless it's a contest weekend or there's extraordinary propagation. And in those cases, "running a frequency" is considered an appropriate usage. And especially on 6m and 10m, where propagation changes minute to minute so you want to keep a signal on the air to catch those changes. (I saw that on 10m two weeks ago during the TDW--signals went up and down in the time it took to make a single QSO.)

If the band isn't crowded, then I don't consider someone calling CQ for a long time to be rude. Maybe it's fruitless, or a waste of time, or a waste of electrons. He's probably just looking for band openings that come and go. But if he isn't QRMing someone then it isn't rude in my book.

Just another opinion...

73,
Steve
W3HF


-----Original Message-----
From: K7DWI Art <k7dwicn82@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

I hate to say this, but some of the rudest, dumbest and useless FT8 operators I have experienced here in Southern Oregon hold an Extra Class license.
Each week I am amazed how long these guys just call CQ.
On 6 Meters the record is one and a half hours, on 10 Meters an hour and 20 minutes.
I rarely call CQ. I was told you answer CQs or tail-end existing QSO's  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much have done that since 1979. I don't have 300 DXCC to my credit, but very few enemies in this hobby.
I will call when the band is open and no one's home, or a couple of short ones to see is the band it open.
I spend more time listening.
No doubt courtesy has been long gone.
73 Art K7DWI #2518


Jerry N9AVY
 

Back in the day when I was a gung ho contest station, I had a MFJ voice keyer when I was "running a frequency".  When I needed a break for food, drinks or nature calls, I would set up the voice keyer to call "CQ" with an appropriate silent time for someone to answer.  The desired effect was to "hold" the frequency from other stations. Hah !   Of course, I gave up that habit many long years ago because it always didn't work due to some mega-kilowatt jockey grabbing the frequency.  Was fun while it lasted.

Jerry  n9avy

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 06:13:27 PM CDT, Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io <melachri@...> wrote:


One supplement: maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "how long these people call CQ." I interpreted that as total duration of multiple individual CQs. If you meant a continuous key-down, then I agree with you.

I could understand something like five separate CQ transmissions per minute, separated by listening time (to hear replies). That could be 300 separate transmissions in an hour, with 300 separate listening periods. I would call this "repeatedly calling CQ."

But if the station calls CQ continuously (not repeatedly) without listening, then you are absolutely correct. And I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

BTW, I think it's more efficient to send repeated CQs in general. In PSK-speak, I much prefer:

Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)
Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)
Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)

rather than:

Tx: CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF 
CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF
CQ CQ de W3HF W3HF k
Rx: (listen)

Steve
W3HF

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io <melachri@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io <main@070Club.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

Art -

Question: how do you know if a band is open if you don't see/hear any signals? Someone has to call CQ! If no one makes their presence known by calling CQ, then no one can respond (to a CQ), and there will be no QSOs for anyone to tail-end!

You didn't say if the band was crowded, but I highly doubt that on 6m unless it's a contest weekend or there's extraordinary propagation. And in those cases, "running a frequency" is considered an appropriate usage. And especially on 6m and 10m, where propagation changes minute to minute so you want to keep a signal on the air to catch those changes. (I saw that on 10m two weeks ago during the TDW--signals went up and down in the time it took to make a single QSO.)

If the band isn't crowded, then I don't consider someone calling CQ for a long time to be rude. Maybe it's fruitless, or a waste of time, or a waste of electrons. He's probably just looking for band openings that come and go. But if he isn't QRMing someone then it isn't rude in my book.

Just another opinion...

73,
Steve
W3HF


-----Original Message-----
From: K7DWI Art <k7dwicn82@...>
To: main@070Club.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [070Club] ARRL Monitoring report (ARRL Letter)

I hate to say this, but some of the rudest, dumbest and useless FT8 operators I have experienced here in Southern Oregon hold an Extra Class license.
Each week I am amazed how long these guys just call CQ.
On 6 Meters the record is one and a half hours, on 10 Meters an hour and 20 minutes.
I rarely call CQ. I was told you answer CQs or tail-end existing QSO's  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much have done that since 1979. I don't have 300 DXCC to my credit, but very few enemies in this hobby.
I will call when the band is open and no one's home, or a couple of short ones to see is the band it open.
I spend more time listening.
No doubt courtesy has been long gone.
73 Art K7DWI #2518


K7DWI Art
 

Hey Jerry and Steve,
On 6 Meters when I lived in central Arizona, there were 3 Hams that ran a Kilowatt (one 1500) and 3 more running 500 watts all "Line of Sight".
When FT8 exploded, I though I was going to go "Postal".🤬
The problem with 6 Meters is line of sight. No signal with weaken.
10 Meters has similar characteristics. Not as bad as 6 Meters, but close.
Besides strong signals, just like PSK31 on occasions a few operators haven't learned how to control computer audio and their ALC.
A lot of this has to deal with the Automatic operation of FT8, where with PSK31 you are monitoring and looking.
Other that a few overdriven audios, I have no complaints with PSK31 other than CQ's that don't respond to my return. Common at my new QTH.
In the last few minutes I saw a local here on 6 Meters FT8 CQ's get an answer, he never got a Roger and signal report back. He continued to send his signal report in its 15 second sequence for 5 minutes.
Another local on 10 Meters sending CQ showed about 7 images on the waterfall each time transmitted. On his non transmit sequences there  was a VE6 working a string of calls.
I worked him on the 3rd call after he finished working another. When completed, he was still calling CQ. He finally called the VE6 and by then he was gone (VE6).

Again, I think the attitude and skill level has gone to Hell in a Handbasket.
Hoping to play in the Firecracker.

73 Art K7DWI #2518


Jerry N9AVY
 

Art:

Propagation has a bit to do with not getting answers to "CQ's" .  While you may hear a station 599, he may be hearing another station responding to his "CQ" from the same area you're in.  He may get a mix of both signals plus other signals from different while you hear nothing. Have been in this situation a few times with stations in Europe & U.S. calling and all I could hear was the noise of multiple stations calling, but never a full call sign.

Won't comment on FT8 because I have never operated that mode and have no wish to even try.  From numerous QSOs I've "copied the mail" on the bands , have seen many comments about ops being bored with FT8. 

From chatting with locals it seems like all the CW/SSB on 6m has be replaced by FT8, but haven't operated 6m in a while due to antenna problems. 

But I think the comments about FT8 operators (some) being rude is likely accurate. Many of today's operators have never had to send CW because they are more computer oriented and prefer modes like FT8.

Propagation is strange at times especially on 10m.   Over the years I have worked aurora which is weird because everyone sounds like they're underwater.  Other times I've worked stations in nearby states that were not normally heard here in IL. There is another phenomena called backscatter on 10m where you point your yagi (never tried it with a vertical or dipole) aimed to SE or SW and you suddenly hear stations you could hear before turning antenna.  So, sometimes propagation is just weird, but it does play a part in one being heard.


Jerry  n9avy #454


On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 09:14:34 PM CDT, K7DWI Art <k7dwicn82@...> wrote:


Hey Jerry and Steve,
On 6 Meters when I lived in central Arizona, there were 3 Hams that ran a Kilowatt (one 1500) and 3 more running 500 watts all "Line of Sight".
When FT8 exploded, I though I was going to go "Postal".🤬
The problem with 6 Meters is line of sight. No signal with weaken.
10 Meters has similar characteristics. Not as bad as 6 Meters, but close.
Besides strong signals, just like PSK31 on occasions a few operators haven't learned how to control computer audio and their ALC.
A lot of this has to deal with the Automatic operation of FT8, where with PSK31 you are monitoring and looking.
Other that a few overdriven audios, I have no complaints with PSK31 other than CQ's that don't respond to my return. Common at my new QTH.
In the last few minutes I saw a local here on 6 Meters FT8 CQ's get an answer, he never got a Roger and signal report back. He continued to send his signal report in its 15 second sequence for 5 minutes.
Another local on 10 Meters sending CQ showed about 7 images on the waterfall each time transmitted. On his non transmit sequences there  was a VE6 working a string of calls.
I worked him on the 3rd call after he finished working another. When completed, he was still calling CQ. He finally called the VE6 and by then he was gone (VE6).

Again, I think the attitude and skill level has gone to Hell in a Handbasket.
Hoping to play in the Firecracker.

73 Art K7DWI #2518


Rick - N7WE
 

Having previously used some of the WSJT modes on 6m, I tried FT8 on HF when it was introduced.  As soon as the novelty wore off, I became dissatisfied and haven't been back.  So I'm no expert, but I think part of the problem Art describes may have to do with the op not having a properly time-synced computer.  As I recall, if your time sync is more than 0.5 seconds out, you will not get a decode which, when coupled with the automated CQ, the "Auto Seq" and, "1st call" features, could lead to continous CQs - even when others are responding to the CQ.  
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Eric KG6MZS
 

On 6/20/21 4:13 PM, Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io wrote:

One supplement: maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "how long these people call CQ." I interpreted that as total duration of multiple individual CQs. If you meant a continuous key-down, then I agree with you.
Except Art was talking about FT8 where continuous key down would be impossible given that the mode is only 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off.

Considering the nature of sporadic E propagation on 6m, calling CQ for long periods of time makes sense to me.  I don't understand why anyone would object.  There is plenty of room on 6m for anybody to do their own thing. To me this is a tempest in a teapot.

In regard to people who call CQ on SSB for long periods of time without unkeying, that seems pretty counter-productive to me. I've actually given up waiting for operators like that to unkey so I can answer them and moved on.

Another country heard from

73 Eric KG6MZS


Jerry N9AVY
 

California has country status now ???   heh-heh .

Jerry   n9avy

On Monday, June 21, 2021, 07:31:05 AM CDT, Eric KG6MZS <contact@...> wrote:


On 6/20/21 4:13 PM, Stephen Melachrinos via groups.io wrote:

> One supplement: maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "how long
> these people call CQ." I interpreted that as total duration of
> multiple individual CQs. If you meant a continuous key-down, then I
> agree with you.

Except Art was talking about FT8 where continuous key down would be
impossible given that the mode is only 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off.

Considering the nature of sporadic E propagation on 6m, calling CQ for
long periods of time makes sense to me.  I don't understand why anyone
would object.  There is plenty of room on 6m for anybody to do their own
thing. To me this is a tempest in a teapot.

In regard to people who call CQ on SSB for long periods of time without
unkeying, that seems pretty counter-productive to me. I've actually
given up waiting for operators like that to unkey so I can answer them
and moved on.

Another country heard from

73 Eric KG6MZS







Barry VA7GEM
 

Art

As your close neighbour I feel obliged to speak up.
I am one of those ops who will call CQ for an hour on 6M
and think it is good operating practice.
FT8 is set up to TX for 15sec and RX for 15sec. There is also
a setting for how many minutes (max 99) you wish to continue the cycle.
On 6M an opening can occur for less than a minute and I try to be on
the air when it happens.
I also utilize PSK reporter and look at it after about 10min of CQing to see
if I was heard anywhere. If yes I will continue. If no I will give it a rest for a while.
If someone else is CQing I may just watch him to see if he gets a response.
Bottom line is any activity on 6M is good activity unless the power is up in the splatter zone.
Cheers and hoping to get you in the 6M log soon
Barry