2018 ARRL Grid Chase


Chris J LaRue NO7E
 

Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018


I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is, his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@arrl.net


Jerry N9AVY
 

My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...




mwbesemer@...
 


Steve VA3FLF/KM4FLF
 

One thing going for FT8 is the terrible band conditions.

I suspect that as conditions start improving over the next 3 years (hopefully ) that it will lose its luster. Besides, by then everyone will have WAS and DXCC FT8.  Then what will they do? Haha

Steve 
VA3FLF

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2017, at 14:32, mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Just for giggles, I reinstalled WSJT-X over the weekend and gave FT8 another try. I'll probably play with it when the bands are really dead, but I don't see the attraction really; it's certainly not the ham radio I learned.  

As for the ARRL... now that they've found themselves in a hole, they should quit digging.

Mike
WM4b
#348


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] wrote:

   My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



___________________________________

From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

  Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.


I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E






Rick - N7WE
 

Here is my prediction.

Given the level of automation in the current FT-8 version, its superior performance on very weak signals, and the minimalist exchange, I think FT-8 or its future evolution's will replace CW as the preferred contest mode.  In fact, I think I remember reading somewhere that part of its development was in response to other JT modes being too slow for contesting and requests for a high speed contest capable format that used the technology. As soon as N1MM logger+ is fully interfaced (if it hasn't already happened) I think it will be off to the races.  CW contesting is already mostly keyboard and automated.  Imagine CQ WW-CW with FT-8 as an allowed mode and a full legal limit amp!  Coming soon to your favorite HF band.  I hope not.

Time will tell. 

Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Jerry N9AVY
 

Okay ...  so what speed is  FT-8... most CW ops are send at 30-40 wpm.  Is FT-8 that fast ???   Also, what is band- width of FT-8 signal as compared to a CW signal ???
 
Just curious ...
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "n7we1980@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Here is my prediction.

Given the level of automation in the current FT-8 version, its superior performance on very weak signals, and the minimalist exchange, I think FT-8 or its future evolution's will replace CW as the preferred contest mode.  In fact, I think I remember reading somewhere that part of its development was in response to other JT modes being too slow for contesting and requests for a high speed contest capable format that used the technology. As soon as N1MM logger+ is fully interfaced (if it hasn't already happened) I think it will be off to the races.  CW contesting is already mostly keyboard and automated.  Imagine CQ WW-CW with FT-8 as an allowed mode and a full legal limit amp!  Coming soon to your favorite HF band.  I hope not.

Time will tell. 

Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602



Steve W3HF
 

I don't think FT8 is a good contest mode. A good CW op can do 4 QSOs per minute during a contest; FT8 is about 90 seconds per QSO. Even RTTY is faster than FT8.


Yes, the other JT modes are very slow, something like 5 minutes per QSO. So FT8 is much faster than they are, and that's the comparison that's made. It's actually even slower than PSK31, but it may seem faster because the exchanges are rigorously defined and don't waste characters. On PSK31, we're "trapped" by inefficiently defined exchanges, everything from multiple repetitions of callsigns (even after calls are acknowledged on both sides) to extraneous non-information that takes time to repeat. (For examples, dig through the reflector archives to the discussions on efficient contest protocols. I won't repeat them here because it always becomes a "don't tell me how to format my transmissions" argument, and no one wins. I wonder how many of those folks are using JT modes where they CAN'T format their transmissions?)


Where FT8 will benefit is working the weak stations, caused by either propagation conditions or just some stations' physical limitations (like compromise antennas). There will always be someone somewhere who needs "weak signal" capabilities, and FT8 (and other JT modes) fit that bill.


Steve

W3HF


mwbesemer@...
 


W7RIV
 

Jerry, I don't agree. I do not think all operators are interested in conversations. I'm one of them. I love FT8 because they are short. I think RTTY is typically short as well and I don't see that one going away. I also did JT-65 for a while. I tired of that, not because of the short communication, but because the length of time one took. Now, with FT-8 that problem has been resolved. I find it frustrating when I'm calling CQ and I send a short PSK31 QSO and I get back minutes and minutes of station data, weather data, antenna, etc. I have multiple macros, and I try to respect those sending. So if I answer a CQ being sent out, I will respond with more. But, not so much to draw out a long QSO and for what? Information that I don't need to know, and isn't a personal conversation. I've even broken out of the macros and had discussions when I see something interesting in the call or from QRZ data. FT-8 has been super fun and in a time where noise and signals are week, I've gotten more ATNO with FT-8 in the last 6 months than I have with PSK31. I love PSK31. I love this club. I love the endorsement checker. I would love to have something like that with every mode I do. 

Bryon, W7RIV

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...





Steve VA3FLF/KM4FLF
 

I’ll show y’all. I’m getting a AL 1500 and run AM.

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2017, at 15:25, w3hf@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

I don't think FT8 is a good contest mode. A good CW op can do 4 QSOs per minute during a contest; FT8 is about 90 seconds per QSO. Even RTTY is faster than FT8.


Yes, the other JT modes are very slow, something like 5 minutes per QSO. So FT8 is much faster than they are, and that's the comparison that's made. It's actually even slower than PSK31, but it may seem faster because the exchanges are rigorously defined and don't waste characters. On PSK31, we're "trapped" by inefficiently defined exchanges, everything from multiple repetitions of callsigns (even after calls are acknowledged on both sides) to extraneous non-information that takes time to repeat. (For examples, dig through the reflector archives to the discussions on efficient contest protocols. I won't repeat them here because it always becomes a "don't tell me how to format my transmissions" argument, and no one wins. I wonder how many of those folks are using JT modes where they CAN'T format their transmissions?)


Where FT8 will benefit is working the weak stations, caused by either propagation conditions or just some stations' physical limitations (like compromise antennas). There will always be someone somewhere who needs "weak signal" capabilities, and FT8 (and other JT modes) fit that bill.


Steve

W3HF


Jerry N9AVY
 

I generally try to use short macros and keep QSOs as short as the guy  on other end wants, but if he wants to have a longer conversation I'm up for that.   I've used PSK31  to welcome new operators and to encourage them... teach where I can.  If a station doesn't want to chat, that's okay.
 
Frankly I get tired of short macro-macro QSOs and need something else.  It's nice to find someone with common interests.  I've made a lot of good friends over the past 40 years doing that.  Perhaps the social media is responsible for the lack of the art of conversation ?  Maybe hams are now just boring geeks ?   There were days when I'd turn of a couple hams talking and they'd go on for hours and it was free entertainment while working on projects in the shack. 
 
Jerry  n9avy



From: "Bryon nnegrom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Jerry, I don't agree. I do not think all operators are interested in conversations. I'm one of them. I love FT8 because they are short. I think RTTY is typically short as well and I don't see that one going away. I also did JT-65 for a while. I tired of that, not because of the short communication, but because the length of time one took. Now, with FT-8 that problem has been resolved. I find it frustrating when I'm calling CQ and I send a short PSK31 QSO and I get back minutes and minutes of station data, weather data, antenna, etc. I have multiple macros, and I try to respect those sending. So if I answer a CQ being sent out, I will respond with more. But, not so much to draw out a long QSO and for what? Information that I don't need to know, and isn't a personal conversation. I've even broken out of the macros and had discussions when I see something interesting in the call or from QRZ data. FT-8 has been super fun and in a time where noise and signals are week, I've gotten more ATNO with FT-8 in the last 6 months than I have with PSK31. I love PSK31. I love this club. I love the endorsement checker. I would love to have something like that with every mode I do. 

Bryon, W7RIV

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 
My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/ international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...







Jerry N9AVY
 

Maybe I should run spark gap and knock out comms from 1 kHz  to the GHz range ???    We could have a pool to see how long it takes the FCC to find me !   

Jerry  n9avy


From: "Steve P oldjavadrinker@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
I’ll show y’all. I’m getting a AL 1500 and run AM.

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2017, at 15:25, w3hf@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 
I don't think FT8 is a good contest mode. A good CW op can do 4 QSOs per minute during a contest; FT8 is about 90 seconds per QSO. Even RTTY is faster than FT8.

Yes, the other JT modes are very slow, something like 5 minutes per QSO. So FT8 is much faster than they are, and that's the comparison that's made. It's actually even slower than PSK31, but it may seem faster because the exchanges are rigorously defined and don't waste characters. On PSK31, we're "trapped" by inefficiently defined exchanges, everything from multiple repetitions of callsigns (even after calls are acknowledged on both sides) to extraneous non-information that takes time to repeat. (For examples, dig through the reflector archives to the discussions on efficient contest protocols. I won't repeat them here because it always becomes a "don't tell me how to format my transmissions" argument, and no one wins. I wonder how many of those folks are using JT modes where they CAN'T format their transmissions?)

Where FT8 will benefit is working the weak stations, caused by either propagation conditions or just some stations' physical limitations (like compromise antennas). There will always be someone somewhere who needs "weak signal" capabilities, and FT8 (and other JT modes) fit that bill.

Steve
W3HF



Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

I tend to agree with Jerry.  JT65 did its thing and I feel that FT8 will also and then pretty much be gone.  I love PSK31/63/125. Only do mostly 31 but I, as Jerry stated, probably work about the same as he does and that is if the person calls CQ, I answer and I just follow the flow.  If he wants to talk, I’ll talk and give as much info as he wants.  If not, then I’ll not provide any more info than I have to and keep it short.  If I’m calling CQ, it just depends on the mood I’m in while I’m working.  Generally I’ll give the usual 21 macros.  If the person at the other end doesn’t appear to have any numbers, then I give a very short basic info of name, sig report, QTH and done.  


Dan Morris  KZ3T

I live to live for Him!



On Nov 13, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...






Jerry N9AVY
 

Maybe some have already noticed that besides giving out my  070#  , I also give the PODXS  home page as it may encourage some to take a peek.  Been doing that for a few months now.
 
Jerry  n9avy



From: "Dan Morris dbmorris315@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 List Service 070 List Service <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
I tend to agree with Jerry.  JT65 did its thing and I feel that FT8 will also and then pretty much be gone.  I love PSK31/63/125. Only do mostly 31 but I, as Jerry stated, probably work about the same as he does and that is if the person calls CQ, I answer and I just follow the flow.  If he wants to talk, I’ll talk and give as much info as he wants.  If not, then I’ll not provide any more info than I have to and keep it short.  If I’m calling CQ, it just depends on the mood I’m in while I’m working.  Generally I’ll give the usual 21 macros.  If the person at the other end doesn’t appear to have any numbers, then I give a very short basic info of name, sig report, QTH and done.  


Dan Morris  KZ3T

I live to live for Him!



On Nov 13, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...








Matthew King - AK4MK
 

Jerry - I can make that even easier for you.... give them 070club.com without all the http and www stuff. Nice and simple!

Good job!

73

Matt King
AK4MK - 070 #1708
PODXS 070 Club Executive Director


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

Maybe some have already noticed that besides giving out my  070#  , I also give the PODXS  home page as it may encourage some to take a peek.  Been doing that for a few months now.
 
Jerry  n9avy



From: "Dan Morris dbmorris315@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 List Service 070 List Service <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
I tend to agree with Jerry.  JT65 did its thing and I feel that FT8 will also and then pretty much be gone.  I love PSK31/63/125. Only do mostly 31 but I, as Jerry stated, probably work about the same as he does and that is if the person calls CQ, I answer and I just follow the flow.  If he wants to talk, I’ll talk and give as much info as he wants.  If not, then I’ll not provide any more info than I have to and keep it short.  If I’m calling CQ, it just depends on the mood I’m in while I’m working.  Generally I’ll give the usual 21 macros.  If the person at the other end doesn’t appear to have any numbers, then I give a very short basic info of name, sig report, QTH and done.  


Dan Morris  KZ3T

I live to live for Him!



On Nov 13, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

My predictions are seldom accurate, but maybe this one will come to pass.
 
I suspect that FT-8 will self-destruct in a year or two because many will tire of contacts with little information. People get into ham radio to meet other people and have some meaningful conversations.  FT-8 QSOs are just plain old "599 QSL 73" ones and people will tire of that.  Choices of operating frequencies were ill conceived and there will be a backlash because of it.
 
I also predict that ARRL may see a loss in membership as a result of just another year long stupid contest which probably won't generate the revenue they had hoped. I plan on being one of the statistics in loss of revenue.
 
 
Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 <070@...>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [070] 2018 ARRL Grid Chase

 
Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018

I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@...









k9wis@...
 

call me old fashioned..but I like a nice personable chat followed up by a paper QSL and even a handwritten letter ...
Brian K9WIS
Emiratus ARRL Member

---- "Christopher J LaRue NO7E no7e@cox.net [070]" <070@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Anyone else read the specifications on this?  FT8 is going to be
absolutely dominating every band when this mess starts.  It will be a
year long FT8 contest.

http://www.arrl.org/international-grid-chase-2018


I admit I like and use FT8 but I prefer to actually have a conversation
with other operators.  That is why I like PSK31, the problem is most of
the contacts are about as interesting lately as FT8.  Hello, my name is,
his/her name is the grid signal report and 73.  Sometimes you actually
get rig information and a little chat but that is getting rare even on
PSK31.

--
73 de Chris NO7E
no7e@arrl.net