eQSL Question
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John Etling
All;
I am setting up for /P and /QRP work and need to understand if eQSL requires a separate account for /QRP or /P calls…
In other words I will be running /P/QRP (both) or may run only /QRP if at home.
Does eQSL/LoTW etc. all require specific accounts for that operation? Or can I just upload to my home account (if working from home QTH and working /QRP)?
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Steve W3HF
John - That's exactly the consequence of the situation I referred to earlier this week, compounded by locations. And I hinted at this a few months ago in a post about always using a unique callsign when operating portable. eQSL views the callsign field as a strict alphanumeric that must match exactly. So K3JAE and K3JAE/P are NOT the same. (They don't respect case, fortunately, so K3JAE/P and K3JAE/p ARE the same.) This means that if someone logs you as K3JAE/P (which is what they should do if that's the callsign you use on the air), then you must have a matching K3JAE/P account at eQSL to receive the incoming entries and send out your own. This is further compounded by the fact that every eQSL account can have one and only one location defined. You can't sign K3JAE/P from different portable locations and then use a single eQSL account for all of the confirmations. If you do, all the confirmations will be from the same station location. And you can't simply change the location for the later operations and then upload only the new ones, because that will actually change the location for all previous entries in that account. The proper way to do this is to set up different eQSL accounts with the same callsign but different locations and non-overlapping effective dates. Now add the "with and without /QRP callsign variants" and you'll see why I don't think it's worth it to add that complexity. And it is why I have 15 separate eQSL accounts. All but two are variants of W3HF. (The others are my VQ9HF call and a 1x1 special event call I used once.) Three of those accounts are for W3HF/3. They were three separate one-day portable activations separated by about 5 years. Two were from the same location, but they were the 1st and 3rd. In between I was at a different location. So to make it work, I had to have three different accounts. Likewise I have two W3HF/0 accounts for different locations. LoTW uses a different approach. LoTW also respects exact callsigns, so if you use K3JAE/P you need to upload with a certificate for that callsign--you can't use your K3JAE certificate. And the same is true for K3JAE/QRP or K3JAE/P/QRP, which is probably different from K3JAE/QRP/P. The place where LoTW is a little easier is that the station location is not embedded in the callsign certificate as it is with eQSL's accounts. So you can establish different station locations for the same callsign within the TQSL utility and associate them. And you can go back and forth (using the same call at different locations) because the location is defined on a QSO-by-QSO basis when the QSO is uploaded with a certificate-location association (as opposed to eQSL's definition of location as applying to all QSOs in a given account). So for my W3HF/3 example above, I can use the same W3HF/3 certificate to upload QSOs to LoTW from as many different locations as I operate from. I need to establish different station locations in TQSL to do this, but I don't need separate accounts or certificates. Steve W3HF All;
I am setting up for /P and /QRP work and need to understand if eQSL requires a separate account for /QRP or /P calls…
In other words I will be running /P/QRP (both) or may run only /QRP if at home.
Does eQSL/LoTW etc. all require specific accounts for that operation? Or can I just upload to my home account (if working from home QTH and working /QRP)?
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John Etling
WOW… mind boggling… OK, Let me rephrase to see if I am understanding properly – focusing primarily on eQSL for the moment. In order for me to upload to eQSL as K3JAE/QRP I need a separate account for that, and have already created that account – I actually have attached that account to my primary account. Now, I cannot specify dates specific only to /QRP operation as I may mix/match working both QRP or at higher wattage during any 24 hour period. I set up my logging program (DXKeeper) to upload to my /QRP (nickname used) account. It tells me nope, no username/password for that account – yet I can access it once I go online to eQSL and log in – then pick which account I want to use/view. My accounts are K3JAE and K3JAE/QRP as it stands right now. Most of the time I will run QRP from home so location will be the same as the primary account. Occasionally I will go portable and thus when I do, I will always use K3JAE/QRP/P as my signing. But Location will be different. So you are saying, if I understand this properly, that I will need a new eQSL account for EVERY location I chose to operate as K3JAE/QRP/P? That will become very daunting and a major PIA and will absolutely create errors on my end for sure. LoTW, I think will be easier as I’ll just have to get new station certificates setups… that is considerably easier to do. I wonder if eQSL has thought this through thoroughly to make it easier to avoid all the headaches of trying to work portable (probably the most problematic of all scenarios) and requiring a specific account for each portable location. Maybe the main reason most people just upload to their primary call and do not upload as /QRP or /P et al just to avoid the confusion and the “jumping through hoops” as it were. Also why we may never get confirmations of a call on eQSL because the other half of the QSO does not log as /QRP or /P thereby no possible exact match is found on eQSL. I just experienced this exact thing this AM seeing someone who finally uploaded his log from 2013. 3 Contacts were made by me specifically during that period on 3 separate bands and all with him using the /QRP tag. When reviewing my inbound QSL’s on eQSL I noticed his confirmations were there but w/o the /QRP tag. Since the call was not matched “properly” to my logged QSO (I had the /QRP tag on his call) the confirmations were never confirmed as it were. As a filler and the reason I am banging my head right now is I will be activating NPOTA MP08 soon and will be operating as K3JAE/QRP/P. I want to give proper credit for all contacts made as requested. I cannot “legally” operate as K3JAE since I am not at my home QTH nor do I wish to sign as K3JAE/P alone since it may give the impression I am working with >5w and also for various reasons will remain at 5 or lower watts (looking for endorsements). SO the proper signing for me then should be K3JAE/QRP/P. I further await clarification of my understanding and/or additional guidance on how to make this work properly for me.
From: Stephen Melachrinos w3hf@... [070] [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 08:54 To: 070@... Subject: Re: [070] eQSL Question
John -
That's exactly the consequence of the situation I referred to earlier this week, compounded by locations. And I hinted at this a few months ago in a post about always using a unique callsign when operating portable.
eQSL views the callsign field as a strict alphanumeric that must match exactly. So K3JAE and K3JAE/P are NOT the same. (They don't respect case, fortunately, so K3JAE/P and K3JAE/p ARE the same.) This means that if someone logs you as K3JAE/P (which is what they should do if that's the callsign you use on the air), then you must have a matching K3JAE/P account at eQSL to receive the incoming entries and send out your own.
This is further compounded by the fact that every eQSL account can have one and only one location defined. You can't sign K3JAE/P from different portable locations and then use a single eQSL account for all of the confirmations. If you do, all the confirmations will be from the same station location. And you can't simply change the location for the later operations and then upload only the new ones, because that will actually change the location for all previous entries in that account. The proper way to do this is to set up different eQSL accounts with the same callsign but different locations and non-overlapping effective dates.
Now add the "with and without /QRP callsign variants" and you'll see why I don't think it's worth it to add that complexity. And it is why I have 15 separate eQSL accounts. All but two are variants of W3HF. (The others are my VQ9HF call and a 1x1 special event call I used once.) Three of those accounts are for W3HF/3. They were three separate one-day portable activations separated by about 5 years. Two were from the same location, but they were the 1st and 3rd. In between I was at a different location. So to make it work, I had to have three different accounts. Likewise I have two W3HF/0 accounts for different locations.
LoTW uses a different approach. LoTW also respects exact callsigns, so if you use K3JAE/P you need to upload with a certificate for that callsign--you can't use your K3JAE certificate. And the same is true for K3JAE/QRP or K3JAE/P/QRP, which is probably different from K3JAE/QRP/P. The place where LoTW is a little easier is that the station location is not embedded in the callsign certificate as it is with eQSL's accounts. So you can establish different station locations for the same callsign within the TQSL utility and associate them. And you can go back and forth (using the same call at different locations) because the location is defined on a QSO-by-QSO basis when the QSO is uploaded with a certificate-location association (as opposed to eQSL's definition of location as applying to all QSOs in a given account).
So for my W3HF/3 example above, I can use the same W3HF/3 certificate to upload QSOs to LoTW from as many different locations as I operate from. I need to establish different station locations in TQSL to do this, but I don't need separate accounts or certificates.
Steve W3HF
On 02/27/16, 'John Etling' john@... [070]<070@...> wrote:
All;
I am setting up for /P and /QRP work and need to understand if eQSL requires a separate account for /QRP or /P calls…
In other words I will be running /P/QRP (both) or may run only /QRP if at home.
Does eQSL/LoTW etc. all require specific accounts for that operation? Or can I just upload to my home account (if working from home QTH and working /QRP)?
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boat.anchor@...
John To chase the endorsements I dont think you need the /QRP Just try setting your TX PWR to 5W. When the oter end confirms 5W or less set ur RX PWR to 5W. Pls see the programmeister's response in message 45905 Barry I cannot “legally” operate as K3JAE since I am not at my home QTH nor do I wish to sign as K3JAE/P alone since it may give the impression I am working with >5w and also for various reasons will remain at 5 or lower watts (looking for endorsements). SO the proper signing for me then should be K3JAE/QRP/P. I further await clarification of my understanding and/or additional guidance on how to make this work properly for me.
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John Etling
Barry,
You are correct re the endorsements for 070 – however other clubs I belong to do require the /QRP on my call. I also am not sure how LoTW uses that for the QRP endorsement. Anyone know that one?
From: boat.anchor@... [070] [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 09:51 To: 070@... Subject: RE: [070] eQSL Question
John To chase the endorsements I dont think you need the /QRP Just try setting your TX PWR to 5W. When the oter end confirms 5W or less set ur RX PWR to 5W. Pls see the programmeister's response in message 45905 Barry
I cannot “legally” operate as K3JAE since I am not at my home QTH nor do I wish to sign as K3JAE/P alone since it may give the impression I am working with >5w and also for various reasons will remain at 5 or lower watts (looking for endorsements). SO the proper signing for me then should be K3JAE/QRP/P. I further await clarification of my understanding and/or additional guidance on how to make this work properly for me.
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Steve W3HF
John - Basically all true, but a few comments. 1. Another way to put this is that for eQSL, both the callsign and the actual station location are defined on an account-by-account basis. So your account has to match not only the callsign you used but your station location where you operated. Your uploads only define the QSOs you made, and eQSL "derives" your callsign and location from the account into which you uploaded. So yes, it makes it tricky with logging programs, making sure that you upload to the right account. And yes, you would need a different account for each different location. And even if you return to a previous location, if you've used the same callsign from somewhere else in between, all of those need to be in separate accounts because of the non-overlapping date rule. 2. LoTW is a little easier, as you point out. Based on what you described, you will need three (and only three) certificates, for K3JAE, K3JAE/QRP and K3JAE/QRP/P. Within TQSL you will be able to set different station locations, and associate them with the proper certificate for that upload. 3. Quite honestly, both eQSL and LoTW have evolved over the years, and what they are today is much more flexible than they were when things started. But I can't really speak to whether either of them have "thought it through" adequately to address all possibilities--in fact, it's almost a certainty that you CAN'T create a system that has enough features to make it flexible enough for ALL possibilities without making it much too complicated for anyone to use. And eQSL and LoTW actually have different objectives, which lead to differing implementations. eQSL is generally considered easier to use, but it doesn't deal with some issues (like these) very well. LoTW emphasizes assurance of station identities, as well as the ability to interact with users in more ways (such as an emailed upload), but that is at the expense of PKI certificates. 4. Since you say you will operate from a National Park soon, I'd suggest you tailor your approach to what it takes to make LoTW work. That's the mechanism most NPOTA chasers will want; eQSL should be a distant secondary consideration. 5. And I do want to correct one misunderstanding you have. Actually, under FCC rules, you are allowed to use K3JAE (without any modifiers) from anywhere the FCC has jurisdiction. That means anywhere in the 50 states, as well as all of the territories in the Caribbean and Pacific areas. You are under no obligation to sign as /KL7 in Alaska, or /KH2 in Guam, or /KP4 in Puerto Rico. It doesn't matter if it's a different DXCC entity as long as it's under FCC jurisdiction. All of those rules went away in the 1970s. Many (but not all) folks add these "self-assigned identifiers" for the convenience of those they work on the air. And some awards organizations may impose those rules, and perhaps that's what you were referring to. But you are under no legal requirement to do so. Steve W3HF WOW… mind boggling… OK, Let me rephrase to see if I am understanding properly – focusing primarily on eQSL for the moment. In order for me to upload to eQSL as K3JAE/QRP I need a separate account for that, and have already created that account – I actually have attached that account to my primary account. Now, I cannot specify dates specific only to /QRP operation as I may mix/match working both QRP or at higher wattage during any 24 hour period. I set up my logging program (DXKeeper) to upload to my /QRP (nickname used) account. It tells me nope, no username/password for that account – yet I can access it once I go online to eQSL and log in – then pick which account I want to use/view. My accounts are K3JAE and K3JAE/QRP as it stands right now. Most of the time I will run QRP from home so location will be the same as the primary account. Occasionally I will go portable and thus when I do, I will always use K3JAE/QRP/P as my signing. But Location will be different. So you are saying, if I understand this properly, that I will need a new eQSL account for EVERY location I chose to operate as K3JAE/QRP/P? That will become very daunting and a major PIA and will absolutely create errors on my end for sure. LoTW, I think will be easier as I’ll just have to get new station certificates setups… that is considerably easier to do. I wonder if eQSL has thought this through thoroughly to make it easier to avoid all the headaches of trying to work portable (probably the most problematic of all scenarios) and requiring a specific account for each portable location. Maybe the main reason most people just upload to their primary call and do not upload as /QRP or /P et al just to avoid the confusion and the “jumping through hoops” as it were. Also why we may never get confirmations of a call on eQSL because the other half of the QSO does not log as /QRP or /P thereby no possible exact match is found on eQSL. I just experienced this exact thing this AM seeing someone who finally uploaded his log from 2013. 3 Contacts were made by me specifically during that period on 3 separate bands and all with him using the /QRP tag. When reviewing my inbound QSL’s on eQSL I noticed his confirmations were there but w/o the /QRP tag. Since the call was not matched “properly” to my logged QSO (I had the /QRP tag on his call) the confirmations were never confirmed as it were. As a filler and the reason I am banging my head right now is I will be activating NPOTA MP08 soon and will be operating as K3JAE/QRP/P. I want to give proper credit for all contacts made as requested. I cannot “legally” operate as K3JAE since I am not at my home QTH nor do I wish to sign as K3JAE/P alone since it may give the impression I am working with >5w and also for various reasons will remain at 5 or lower watts (looking for endorsements). SO the proper signing for me then should be K3JAE/QRP/P. I further await clarification of my understanding and/or additional guidance on how to make this work properly for me.
From: Stephen Melachrinos w3hf@... [070] [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 08:54 To: 070@... Subject: Re: [070] eQSL Question
John -
That's exactly the consequence of the situation I referred to earlier this week, compounded by locations. And I hinted at this a few months ago in a post about always using a unique callsign when operating portable.
eQSL views the callsign field as a strict alphanumeric that must match exactly. So K3JAE and K3JAE/P are NOT the same. (They don't respect case, fortunately, so K3JAE/P and K3JAE/p ARE the same.) This means that if someone logs you as K3JAE/P (which is what they should do if that's the callsign you use on the air), then you must have a matching K3JAE/P account at eQSL to receive the incoming entries and send out your own.
This is further compounded by the fact that every eQSL account can have one and only one location defined. You can't sign K3JAE/P from different portable locations and then use a single eQSL account for all of the confirmations. If you do, all the confirmations will be from the same station location. And you can't simply change the location for the later operations and then upload only the new ones, because that will actually change the location for all previous entries in that account. The proper way to do this is to set up different eQSL accounts with the same callsign but different locations and non-overlapping effective dates.
Now add the "with and without /QRP callsign variants" and you'll see why I don't think it's worth it to add that complexity. And it is why I have 15 separate eQSL accounts. All but two are variants of W3HF. (The others are my VQ9HF call and a 1x1 special event call I used once.) Three of those accounts are for W3HF/3. They were three separate one-day portable activations separated by about 5 years. Two were from the same location, but they were the 1st and 3rd. In between I was at a different location. So to make it work, I had to have three different accounts. Likewise I have two W3HF/0 accounts for different locations.
LoTW uses a different approach. LoTW also respects exact callsigns, so if you use K3JAE/P you need to upload with a certificate for that callsign--you can't use your K3JAE certificate. And the same is true for K3JAE/QRP or K3JAE/P/QRP, which is probably different from K3JAE/QRP/P. The place where LoTW is a little easier is that the station location is not embedded in the callsign certificate as it is with eQSL's accounts. So you can establish different station locations for the same callsign within the TQSL utility and associate them. And you can go back and forth (using the same call at different locations) because the location is defined on a QSO-by-QSO basis when the QSO is uploaded with a certificate-location association (as opposed to eQSL's definition of location as applying to all QSOs in a given account).
So for my W3HF/3 example above, I can use the same W3HF/3 certificate to upload QSOs to LoTW from as many different locations as I operate from. I need to establish different station locations in TQSL to do this, but I don't need separate accounts or certificates.
Steve W3HF
On 02/27/16, 'John Etling' john@... [070]<070@...> wrote:
All;
I am setting up for /P and /QRP work and need to understand if eQSL requires a separate account for /QRP or /P calls…
In other words I will be running /P/QRP (both) or may run only /QRP if at home.
Does eQSL/LoTW etc. all require specific accounts for that operation? Or can I just upload to my home account (if working from home QTH and working /QRP)?
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Steve W3HF
John - If you are talking about ARRL's "QRP DXCC" award, there's a little extra background. 1. There is no "QRP endorsement" within ARRL's DXCC program. QRP DXCC is a completely separate program. 2. Since it's separate from DXCC, there is no way to apply from within your LoTW account. 3. In fact, it doesn't even require QSLs to be sent, so LoTW is completely irrelevant. 4. There are no additional endorsements of QRP DXCC possible, like mode, band, or entities in excess of 100. 5. Certificates are dated, not numbered. 6. To apply, just send a list of your 100 contacts, a signed statement that you were QRP for all of the QSOs, and your payment. DXCC purists tend to scoff at this award as there is no certification required. (Even eQSL's DX100 award requires confirmations from stations they've verified as AG, and QRP ARCI also requires QSLs.) It's been available for over 14 years now, and there have been less than 650 issued. I'd suggest that low number isn't because it's so difficult--it's that it isn't very popular for a variety of reasons. But regarding your real question, given #6 above it's clear that there really is no requirement for the /QRP. Steve W3HF Barry,
You are correct re the endorsements for 070 – however other clubs I belong to do require the /QRP on my call. I also am not sure how LoTW uses that for the QRP endorsement. Anyone know that one?
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David Westbrook
> SO the proper signing for me then should be K3JAE/QRP/P. As Steve pointed out, you can use "K3JAE" from somewhere other than your home QTH .. One option for your NPOTA (or other portable) operation, is "K3JAE/3". I have KJ4IZW/4 and KJ4IZW/2 certs/profiles setup in LoTW and eQSL, and both SC (2009-2014) and NY (2014-present) qths for KJ4IZW. For the issues of DXKeeper uploading to the various eQSL profiles -- it simplifies things to make sure you're using the DXK "myQTHs" properly, and tagging all Q's with the respective my_qth, and really key (for ease of use) is having the myQTH names match the eqsl profile names. There's more on that in the DXK docs -- i don't remember all the details offhand, but remember that i just read through the DXK docs sections; and I'm sure the dxlab reflector would yield good, specific support, too, if you run into issues. --david KJ4IZW On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Stephen Melachrinos w3hf@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
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