Annoying things on PSK


Jerry N9AVY
 

Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations (hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW).  So I work a fairly common European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !   They stole "my frequency"  I was taught that that is bad on the air manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX you need"  takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this isn't the first time this has happened.   There have been several occasions with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will talk right over the station I'm working.  There was a Russian station that did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed. 

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered.  Guess most are but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...


Jerry  N9AVY


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@...>
 

Sorry to hear about that, Jerry, and you are correct.

Just last night, I was running a frequency, and work a "KK4" station and he
made the comment that I was about his fourth contact, and then someone else
(domestic) jumps in and makes contact with him. Since it was close enough
to bedtime, I just turned off rig.

I guess what I am going to start doing, is to treat the offending station
as "NIL" when they want an eQSL, LOTW or Card.

A number of us talked about this same subject on the local repeater this
morning.

73 de Joe KJ8O




On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**


Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations
(hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW). So I work a fairly common
European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !
They stole "my frequency" I was taught that that is bad on the air
manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX
you need" takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this
isn't the first time this has happened. There have been several occasions
with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will
talk right over the station I'm working. There was a Russian station that
did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed.

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered. Guess most are
but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...

Jerry N9AVY





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jerry N9AVY
 

Many years ago I was a QSL Manager for a DX station in South Pacific .  This was era of paper logs.  Every time he had a problem like that, he would note in margin "NO QSL"  !   I honored that request and several worldwide stations were excluded from getting their cards. 

On the first DXpedition to Ducie Is.  a friend of mine from here in 9-land was at the mic and told a certain 7-land station that if he "asks one more time if he is in log, he won't be".   That is probably why many stations do not receive QSLs either electronic or paper. 

Think I'm going to post a DO-NOT-QSL list next to radio with offending/ill-mannered stations and let them know why.  It's one small effort, but it may help prevent the mess that exists on SSB.

BTW, I read an interesting item last night about contests.  Seems that a bunch of worldwide stations were operating with SDR receivers in one of contests and logging everything received and storing it .   They were able to pull contacts down to date, time and frequency !  So, while it may have been easy to cheat in past, the game has changed.    See:  http://http://cqww.com/blog/?p=67

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 12:21 PM

Sorry to hear about that, Jerry, and you are correct.

Just last night, I was running a frequency, and work a "KK4" station and he
made the comment that I was about his fourth contact, and then someone else
(domestic) jumps in and makes contact with him. Since it was close enough
to bedtime, I just turned off rig.

I guess what I am going to start doing, is to treat the offending station
as "NIL" when they want an eQSL, LOTW or Card.

A number of us talked about this same subject on the local repeater this
morning.

73 de Joe KJ8O




On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**


Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations
(hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW).  So I work a fairly common
European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !
They stole "my frequency"  I was taught that that is bad on the air
manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX
you need"  takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this
isn't the first time this has happened.   There have been several occasions
with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will
talk right over the station I'm working.  There was a Russian station that
did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed.

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered.  Guess most are
but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...

Jerry  N9AVY



 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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David, K9DWR
 

I have two comments on this:
1. Yes, it's rude.
2. Tail ending is a little hard sometimes

What I generally try to do is if I see a conversation with someone I
want to talk to, I will wait until the current exchange is completed and
then call the station from a nearby freq if it's not the person that
"owns" it currently.

As for tail ending, you have to remember that not everyone can hear
everyone. It's a real balancing act for me when I can hear only one
half of the conversation. I try to guess as best I can when the other
station is finished (ie, after your 73, I assume there's a final from
the other side, so I try to lag), but I doubt I'm perfect at it.

I hope what I'm doing is at least tolerable. I'm certainly not trying to
be rude.

73

--
David, K9DWR
#1604
david@graniteweb.com

* Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com> [2013-03-13 13:21]:

Sorry to hear about that, Jerry, and you are correct.

Just last night, I was running a frequency, and work a "KK4" station and he
made the comment that I was about his fourth contact, and then someone else
(domestic) jumps in and makes contact with him. Since it was close enough
to bedtime, I just turned off rig.

I guess what I am going to start doing, is to treat the offending station
as "NIL" when they want an eQSL, LOTW or Card.

A number of us talked about this same subject on the local repeater this
morning.

73 de Joe KJ8O




On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**


Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations
(hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW). So I work a fairly common
European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !
They stole "my frequency" I was taught that that is bad on the air
manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX
you need" takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this
isn't the first time this has happened. There have been several occasions
with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will
talk right over the station I'm working. There was a Russian station that
did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed.

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered. Guess most are
but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...

Jerry N9AVY



Radio <radio@...>
 

Jerry,

I find this is pretty common in my travails on the waterfall. Usually someone calls *me* after I work somebody who has been on the frequency for a while. I do not respond. I'm sure they think *I'm* being rude.

73 de Eric, KG6MZS

On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Jerry wrote:

Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations (hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW). So I work a fairly common European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !


Jerry N9AVY
 

It's really pretty simple if you have answered a CQ, you assume it's the other station's frequency and move off after you finish with him.

Determining the end of a QSO is tricky  and takes practice  and patience  - plus some luck.  When in doubt it's probably best to wait a minute or two to see if the station you want calls CQ or QRZ.... assuming it's his frequency to begin with. If no one grabs the frequency you're probably okay to call, but a real couple of minutes is needed, not what seems like an eternity while waiting (use a clock !), <GRIN>.

You sometimes get the fellow who has to "tie the ribbons on it"  by telling you all about his station, his hat size and his Aunt Nellie who lives in Cleveland and drags the final out to where it's actually painful ! 

Mistakes do happen and they can be excused.  I usually monitor a frequency for several minutes before keying up.  You can also send "QRL?" (frequency in use ??) to see if anyone is around (a very good practice).

Somedays I think maybe I should run  300 watts on PSK, but then I realize that I wouldn't make any friends.  :-)

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, David Rock <david@graniteweb.com> wrote:

From: David Rock <david@graniteweb.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:21 PM
















 









I have two comments on this:

1. Yes, it's rude.

2. Tail ending is a little hard sometimes



What I generally try to do is if I see a conversation with someone I

want to talk to, I will wait until the current exchange is completed and

then call the station from a nearby freq if it's not the person that

"owns" it currently.



As for tail ending, you have to remember that not everyone can hear

everyone. It's a real balancing act for me when I can hear only one

half of the conversation. I try to guess as best I can when the other

station is finished (ie, after your 73, I assume there's a final from

the other side, so I try to lag), but I doubt I'm perfect at it.



I hope what I'm doing is at least tolerable. I'm certainly not trying to

be rude.



73



--

David, K9DWR

#1604

david@graniteweb.com



* Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com> [2013-03-13 13:21]:

Sorry to hear about that, Jerry, and you are correct.
Just last night, I was running a frequency, and work a "KK4" station and he
made the comment that I was about his fourth contact, and then someone else
(domestic) jumps in and makes contact with him. Since it was close enough
to bedtime, I just turned off rig.
I guess what I am going to start doing, is to treat the offending station
as "NIL" when they want an eQSL, LOTW or Card.
A number of us talked about this same subject on the local repeater this
morning.
73 de Joe KJ8O
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
**
Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations
(hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW). So I work a fairly common
European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !
They stole "my frequency" I was taught that that is bad on the air
manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX
you need" takes precedence over manners.
I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this
isn't the first time this has happened. There have been several occasions
with this type of behavior.
Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will
talk right over the station I'm working. There was a Russian station that
did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed.
I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered. Guess most are
but there are a few stinkers.
End of rant ...
Jerry N9AVY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@...>
 

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**

You can also send "QRL?" (frequency in use ??) to see if anyone is around
(a very good practice).
Who knows? You might even get a "Good Operator Report" from an official
observer....


73 de Joe KJ8O 1244


Jerry N9AVY
 

Joe:

You must have heard about some op getting a "Good Operator Report"  from an OO  !

Jerry

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 4:33 PM
















 









On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



**
You can also send "QRL?" (frequency in use ??) to see if anyone is around
(a very good practice).


Who knows? You might even get a "Good Operator Report" from an official

observer....



73 de Joe KJ8O 1244































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@...>
 

Yes, I did!


Joe


On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**


Joe:

You must have heard about some op getting a "Good Operator Report" from
an OO !

Jerry

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 4:33 PM



On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**
You can also send "QRL?" (frequency in use ??) to see if anyone is around
(a very good practice).
Who knows? You might even get a "Good Operator Report" from an official

observer....

73 de Joe KJ8O 1244



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ljl2002@att.net
 

Jerry,
 
I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency.  However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened.  Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM.  It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway.  That happens to me every day!  It stinks but what can you do?
 
GL. 73
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482

From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: [070] Annoying things on PSK

 
Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations (hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW).  So I work a fairly common European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !   They stole "my frequency"  I was taught that that is bad on the air manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX you need"  takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this isn't the first time this has happened.   There have been several occasions with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will talk right over the station I'm working.  There was a Russian station that did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed. 

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered.  Guess most are but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...

Jerry  N9AVY






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ljl2002@att.net
 

Dave,
 
How 'bout those stations where SK doesn't mean SK?  I have called a station after both had SK'ed and I find that they are still talking.  I don't think that I am to blame for that one.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482

From: David Rock <david@graniteweb.com>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK

 
I have two comments on this:
1. Yes, it's rude.
2. Tail ending is a little hard sometimes

What I generally try to do is if I see a conversation with someone I
want to talk to, I will wait until the current exchange is completed and
then call the station from a nearby freq if it's not the person that
"owns" it currently.

As for tail ending, you have to remember that not everyone can hear
everyone. It's a real balancing act for me when I can hear only one
half of the conversation. I try to guess as best I can when the other
station is finished (ie, after your 73, I assume there's a final from
the other side, so I try to lag), but I doubt I'm perfect at it.

I hope what I'm doing is at least tolerable. I'm certainly not trying to
be rude.

73

--
David, K9DWR
#1604
mailto:david%40graniteweb.com

* Joseph Miller <mailto:kj8o.ham%40gmail.com> [2013-03-13 13:21]:
Sorry to hear about that, Jerry, and you are correct.

Just last night, I was running a frequency, and work a "KK4" station and he
made the comment that I was about his fourth contact, and then someone else
(domestic) jumps in and makes contact with him. Since it was close enough
to bedtime, I just turned off rig.

I guess what I am going to start doing, is to treat the offending station
as "NIL" when they want an eQSL, LOTW or Card.

A number of us talked about this same subject on the local repeater this
morning.

73 de Joe KJ8O




On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jerry <mailto:n9avy%40sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**


Been running a frequency for over an hour and working lots of stations
(hunting for last bunch of N's I need for WTW). So I work a fairly common
European station and sign with him and the another European calls him !
They stole "my frequency" I was taught that that is bad on the air
manners; so, maybe I'm "old school", but it seems that it's "work the DX
you need" takes precedence over manners.

I wouldn't normally sound off about this but I'm annoyed because this
isn't the first time this has happened. There have been several occasions
with this type of behavior.

Also, there is too much tail-ending going on where another station will
talk right over the station I'm working. There was a Russian station that
did that yesterday and I totally ignored him and even QSYed.

I really thought that PSK operators were better mannered. Guess most are
but there are a few stinkers.

End of rant ...

Jerry N9AVY



Jerry N9AVY
 

When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3 elements at 40 feet,  I generally put out a decent 599 signal into Europe on 15 meters.  In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.

I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having that "me first" attitude.  On the other hand, some of us were talking on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause.  Many would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, ljl2002@att.net <joe_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ljl2002@att.net <joe_molon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "070@yahoogroups.com" <070@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM
















 









Jerry,

 

I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency.  However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened.  Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM.  It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway.  That happens to me every day!  It stinks but what can you do?

 

GL. 73

Joe

KA1PPV  #1482



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ljl2002@att.net
 

Jerry,
 
 I think that with the relative explosion of digital modes it has become a bit of a free-for-all and proper  sportsmanship as well as training has fallen by the wayside a bit.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 

From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK

 
When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3 elements at 40 feet,  I generally put out a decent 599 signal into Europe on 15 meters.  In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.

I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having that "me first" attitude.  On the other hand, some of us were talking on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause.  Many would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.

Jerry  N9AVY 

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "mailto:070%40yahoogroups.commailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM

 

Jerry,

 

I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency.  However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened.  Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM.  It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway.  That happens to me every day!  It stinks but what can you do?

 

GL. 73

Joe

KA1PPV  #1482

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Doc
 

One can call all morning and not get a sole- Come contest tiime,they all come out of hiding <G> ! W8KQ

----- Original Message -----
From: ljl2002@att.net
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK



Jerry,

I think that with the relative explosion of digital modes it has become a bit of a free-for-all and proper sportsmanship as well as training has fallen by the wayside a bit.

Joe
KA1PPV #1482



From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK


When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3 elements at 40 feet, I generally put out a decent 599 signal into Europe on 15 meters. In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.

I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having that "me first" attitude. On the other hand, some of us were talking on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause. Many would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.

Jerry N9AVY

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "mailto:070%40yahoogroups.commailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM



Jerry,



I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency. However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened. Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM. It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway. That happens to me every day! It stinks but what can you do?



GL. 73

Joe

KA1PPV #1482



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6169 - Release Date: 03/13/13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Justin Mattes--KC2GIK
 

This whole thread is annoying........can anyone guess why?? Nearly
EVERYONE on this list uses good operating skills most of the time

Justin KC2GIK #751

On 3/14/2013 10:32 AM, Gerald Bishop wrote:

One can call all morning and not get a sole- Come contest tiime,they
all come out of hiding <G> ! W8KQ
----- Original Message -----
From: ljl2002@att.net <mailto:ljl2002%40att.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com <mailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK

Jerry,

I think that with the relative explosion of digital modes it has
become a bit of a free-for-all and proper sportsmanship as well as
training has fallen by the wayside a bit.

Joe
KA1PPV #1482



From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net <mailto:n9avy%40sbcglobal.net>>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com <mailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK

When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3
elements at 40 feet, I generally put out a decent 599 signal into
Europe on 15 meters. In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely
above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.

I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having
that "me first" attitude. On the other hand, some of us were talking
on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained
in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause. Many
would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.

Jerry N9AVY

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, mailto:ljl2002%40att.net
<mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "mailto:070%40yahoogroups.commailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM

Jerry,

I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but
it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you
and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency. However,
there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate
especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I
just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened. Most of
the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite
the QRM. It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway. That happens
to me every day! It stinks but what can you do?

GL. 73

Joe

KA1PPV #1482

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No virus found in this message.
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Robert Johnstone
 

The joy and frustration of the hobby is that we all have different backgrounds that we bring to the hobby/sport.  As a communications Avionics repairman my training in the phonetic alphabet has literally had me cursed on ssb,  By people who should be laughed off the ll meter band.  These so called experts in their own mind are on par with those that have nothing left to learn.  Without clear defined protocols in the Part 97 and only "GENTELMEN"S" agreement between the numerous organizations, it must remain uncertain who is correct in many areas.  It is at times frustrating, but I think it is something we will have to endure to keep out liberty and options open.  I would like to see some wattage limits in the digital modes for some small segments of the band plan like under 25 Watts, but that is just because I think it would push the noise down and send the welders back to phone. In the mean time I refuse to work any stations with 3 traces at the
same time on my waterfall. KD0FIP #1396 Robert   



________________________________
From: "ljl2002@att.net" <joe_molon@yahoo.com>
To: "070@yahoogroups.com" <070@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK


 
Jerry,
 
 I think that with the relative explosion of digital modes it has become a bit of a free-for-all and proper  sportsmanship as well as training has fallen by the wayside a bit.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 

From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK

 
When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3 elements at 40 feet,  I generally put out a decent 599 signal into Europe on 15 meters.  In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.

I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having that "me first" attitude.  On the other hand, some of us were talking on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause.  Many would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.

Jerry  N9AVY 

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "mailto:070%40yahoogroups.commailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM

 

Jerry,

 

I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency.  However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened.  Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM.  It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway.  That happens to me every day!  It stinks but what can you do?

 

GL. 73

Joe

KA1PPV  #1482



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jerry N9AVY
 

Robert.... et al :

Good points !  

Former FCC Enforement Division Honcho, Riley Hollingsworth, was a stickler for using proper phonetics !   This name of our hobby is communications and to communicate effectively we all need to be on the same page in many areas.  However, phonetics are worthless n digital modes , although I actually heard someone use them. 

In the electronics industry (and many others) we have our "jargon" which consists of acronyms and other buzzwords.  These are sometimes time savers and convey a specific meaning. For example,  there are people who work as 911 dispatchers who occasionally slip back to the 10 codes which they use on the job .. cut them some slack !

We all come from different walks of life and that is what makes ham radio fun.  You never know who you're chatting with until you actually get into a lengthy conversation.
There's a site which lists "Famous Hams" and although many are SK there are quite a few who are still with us.  Who knows ? They may even be on PSK !

The "Gentlemen's Agreements" are needed because Part 97 can't be all inclusive. Besides we don't want the FCC dotting all our I's and crossing all our T's !    So, we all need some basic form to communication with.  We say "73" rather than saying "good night and best regards"   ... "88" instead of "love and kisses"  ...  "KN"  instead of  "I only want to talk to the station I'm calling and no one else"...   "SK" instead of "End of work"... and so on !   All this and more is listed in ARRL Handbook.  These prosigns transcend language barriers which makes communication easier. 

Good luck on limiting power !   There is "FCC Part 97.307 (a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than necessary  for the information rate and emission type being transmitted, in accordance with good amateur practice."

 and

"Part 97.313 (a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications."

Naturally, these two rules can be subject to the operator's interpretation, but I have had PSK operators drop power from 100 watts down to 40-50 with no appreciable degrading of signals.  Even dropping to 25 watts has had little effect except a reduction in bandwidth.

We've all faced those "welders" on the bands whose signals are 3-10 times the bandwidth of a normal PSK31 signals and had our receivers overload.  Fortunately, there aren't any of them in this group.  However, I do think it's our job to tell these guys they have " waterfall bad breath" !  To say nothing is to contribute to the problem.

PSK31 is a fast growing mode which I thing will be growing over the next few years until something better comes along that will require easy interfacing and good ( and free) software support. Groups like 070 which support activity in the mode have a lot to do with the popularity of the mode. If we weren't all out there day in and day out searching for suffixes, countries, states, etc. the bands would be a lot quieter !

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Thu, 3/14/13, Robert Johnstone <shopr3@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Robert Johnstone <shopr3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "070@yahoogroups.com" <070@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:01 PM
















 









The joy and frustration of the hobby is that we all have different backgrounds that we bring to the hobby/sport.  As a communications Avionics repairman my training in the phonetic alphabet has literally had me cursed on ssb,  By people who should be laughed off the ll meter band.  These so called experts in their own mind are on par with those that have nothing left to learn.  Without clear defined protocols in the Part 97 and only "GENTELMEN"S" agreement between the numerous organizations, it must remain uncertain who is correct in many areas.  It is at times frustrating, but I think it is something we will have to endure to keep out liberty and options open.  I would like to see some wattage limits in the digital modes for some small segments of the band plan like under 25 Watts, but that is just because I think it would push the noise down and send the welders back to phone. In the mean time I refuse to work any stations with 3 traces
at the

same time on my waterfall. KD0FIP #1396 Robert   



________________________________
From: "ljl2002@att.netjoe_molon@yahoo.com>
To: "070@yahoogroups.com070@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
 
Jerry,
 
 I think that with the relative explosion of digital modes it has become a bit of a free-for-all and proper  sportsmanship as well as training has fallen by the wayside a bit.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 
From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
 
When that happens, I know full well both stations can hear me. With 3 elements at 40 feet,  I generally put out a decent 599 signal into Europe on 15 meters.  In fact I get calls from QRP guys who are barely above noise level, but I try to work them as best as possible.
I think it's a case of stations in Europe just not caring and having that "me first" attitude.  On the other hand, some of us were talking on local repeater yesterday about new hams not being properly trained in operating procedures and I think that may be the main cause.  Many would learn a lot be doing just a bit more listening for a while.
Jerry  N9AVY 
--- On Thu, 3/14/13, mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mailto:ljl2002%40att.net <mailto:joe_molon%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Annoying things on PSK
To: "mailto:070%40yahoogroups.commailto:070%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 7:38 AM
 
Jerry,
 
I've had that happen on a number of occasions and it is annoying but it also may be that the other station was completely unaware of you and decided just to fire up on that particular frequency.  However, there have been times that I am convinced that it was diliberate especially if it is DX. When that happens to me I just ignore what I just heard and continue the QSO as if nothing has happened.  Most of the time both of the stations can continue the QSO to finish despite the QRM.  It's kind of like being cutoff on the highway.  That happens to me every day!  It stinks but what can you do?
 
GL. 73
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Scott Monks
 

In the resent contest I was "guilty" of this several times due in part to bad conditions. I would hear the same call repeated several times but not be sure who was holding the spot. It sometimes was the other station by mistake. I would then re-call the spotholder, who often answered. Sure, I could have waited and waited to be certain, but it was a contest! Taking things too seriously often leads to throwing stones too quickly.
Scott. XE1/AA0AA

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:56, "Bill AB9QU" <ab9qu@comcast.net> wrote:

I have had stations call me after a QSO when it is not my spot. I don't
answer them and move on

so the original person still has the spot.

Bill ab9qu

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ab9qu
 

I have had stations call me after a QSO when it is not my spot. I don't
answer them and move on

so the original person still has the spot.

Bill ab9qu


Jerry N9AVY
 

In a contest some things are forgivable.  But in daily operations they should be.

Case in point, I still need a bunch of N's for WTW...   so, I see a station with an N suffix calling CQ , I answer him only to be beat out by a station is Iceland.  That's okay because I'll call again.  They finish and then a certain VE2 call the TF station while I'm call the N station.  The N station disappeared and the VE2 & TF station monopolized the frequency.   I think it would have been appropriate had the TF station said "it's not my frequency " and moved off .   That would have been the gentlemanly way to do it.

Still getting a lot of folks jumping on frequency and calling CQ right on top of a QSO. It would help if these folks would LISTEN FIRST !    The excuse that they didn't hear anything doesn't wash.  Watching the waterfall for a few minutes will usually tell if a frequency is in use.

Think I'll start keep a list of offending stations.. sort of a "Do Not Call" list  ... or perhaps a version of the notorious "LID List"  (Yes, there really is one !).

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Tue, 3/19/13, Scott Monks <cq_dx_de_aa0aa@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Scott Monks <cq_dx_de_aa0aa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Re: Annoying things on PSK
To: "070@yahoogroups.com" <070@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 8:09 AM
















 









In the resent contest I was "guilty" of this several times due in part to bad conditions. I would hear the same call repeated several times but not be sure who was holding the spot. It sometimes was the other station by mistake. I would then re-call the spotholder, who often answered. Sure, I could have waited and waited to be certain, but it was a contest! Taking things too seriously often leads to throwing stones too quickly.

Scott. XE1/AA0AA



Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:56, "Bill AB9QU" <ab9qu@comcast.net> wrote:



I have had stations call me after a QSO when it is not my spot. I don't
answer them and move on
so the original person still has the spot.
Bill ab9qu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]