scoring question?


Ted Krempa <trkrempa@...>
 

Ok, I got the Erin (100pts), the Go(100pts) and the Braugh(100pts)..
 
do I automatically get the 500 bonus pts?   (total 800pts)
 
or do I need letters to spell out 'Erin Go Braugh' again?
 
73, TK, K7TRK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

You get 500 points for spelling "Erin Go Braugh". That's it...You get 100 points for spelling out each individual name, OR 500 points if you got all three.
You don't get 800 points.
ok?
Milton
N6MG

----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Krempa
To: 070 club
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: [070] scoring question?



Ok, I got the Erin (100pts), the Go(100pts) and the Braugh(100pts)..

do I automatically get the 500 bonus pts? (total 800pts)

or do I need letters to spell out 'Erin Go Braugh' again?

73, TK, K7TRK


Ted Krempa <trkrempa@...>
 

roger...I'll take the 500
 
tnx, Ted

From: Milton Garb <n6mg@verizon.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [070] scoring question?


 
You get 500 points for spelling "Erin Go Braugh". That's it...You get 100 points for spelling out each individual name, OR 500 points if you got all three.
You don't get 800 points.
ok?
Milton
N6MG
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Krempa
To: 070 club
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: [070] scoring question?

Ok, I got the Erin (100pts), the Go(100pts) and the Braugh(100pts)..

do I automatically get the 500 bonus pts? (total 800pts)

or do I need letters to spell out 'Erin Go Braugh' again?

73, TK, K7TRK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


David Westbrook
 

But i'm not sure that getting "erin", "go", and "braugh" individually
automatically means that you get "erin go braugh" ...

My (unofficial!) interpretation would be that there's 4 separate wotm-stype
bonuses, that independently follow the WOTM rules.
1) "ERIN" -- 100pts
2) "GO" -- 100pts
3) "BRAGH" -- 100pts
4) "ERIN-GO-BRAGH" -- 200pts
So using the same "R" QSO for 1 & 3, or the same "G" QSO for 2 & 3
would be fine ... but need to have two "G"s and two "R"s for #4.

But needs official clarification ...

thanks,
--david
KJ4IZW

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Milton Garb <n6mg@verizon.net> wrote:

**


You get 500 points for spelling "Erin Go Braugh". That's it...You get 100
points for spelling out each individual name, OR 500 points if you got all
three.
You don't get 800 points.
ok?
Milton
N6MG

----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Krempa
To: 070 club
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: [070] scoring question?

Ok, I got the Erin (100pts), the Go(100pts) and the Braugh(100pts)..

do I automatically get the 500 bonus pts? (total 800pts)

or do I need letters to spell out 'Erin Go Braugh' again?

73, TK, K7TRK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Steve W3HF
 

I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF


 

I totally concur with Steve. I do believe it's the intent of the club management to count a letter once per different callsign. Not a letter counting 3 times for 1 contact.
I was clicking on traces last month looking for a 3rd "A" in "COAXIAL CABLE" for days.
I think that should carry forward to "ERIN GO BRAGH" or any effort to spell out something.
Unofficially, that's the way I see it.
We'll see what management has to say.
Milt.
N6MG

----- Original Message -----
From: melachri
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?



I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF


Ted Krempa <trkrempa@...>
 

these issues should be clear BEFORE a contest. Putting a particular 'spin' or interpretation on it AFTER the fact is meaningless. Saying 'spirit' left everything open to interpretation.
 
(but I do like Milt's opinion !!)
 
73, TK, K7TRK

From: melachri <w3hf@arrl.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?


 
I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Eric Dallmann
 

Weighing in as the Contest Manager, Steve and Milt have it correct.  One callsign, one occurrence of a letter (and a total of 500 points for spelling the entire phrase ERIN GO BRAGH).

There is some ambiguity in the way the rules are stated, and Steve's suggested addition would certainly help clarify things in the future.  As was pointed out, it's best to know these things before the contest, rather than rely on interpretations after the fact. (Unfortunately, ambiguities are often difficult to spot before hand.)

Eric/K9VIC
PODXS 070 Club Contest Manager


________________________________
From: Milton Garb <n6mg@verizon.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?


 
I totally concur with Steve. I do believe it's the intent of the club management to count a letter once per different callsign. Not a letter counting 3 times for 1 contact.
I was clicking on traces last month looking for a 3rd "A" in "COAXIAL CABLE" for days.
I think that should carry forward to "ERIN GO BRAGH" or any effort to spell out something.
Unofficially, that's the way I see it.
We'll see what management has to say.
Milt.
N6MG
----- Original Message -----
From: melachri
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?

I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


David Westbrook
 

I have on my to-do list to update the scoring utility to use that logic ...
currently it doesn't prevent a "R" or "G" from being used in two words, so
will add that constraint, as well as support for the bonus for all 3 words.

--david

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Eric Dallmann <k9vic@arrl.net> wrote:

**


Weighing in as the Contest Manager, Steve and Milt have it correct. One
callsign, one occurrence of a letter (and a total of 500 points for
spelling the entire phrase ERIN GO BRAGH).

There is some ambiguity in the way the rules are stated, and Steve's
suggested addition would certainly help clarify things in the future. As
was pointed out, it's best to know these things before the contest, rather
than rely on interpretations after the fact. (Unfortunately, ambiguities
are often difficult to spot before hand.)

Eric/K9VIC
PODXS 070 Club Contest Manager

________________________________
From: Milton Garb <n6mg@verizon.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?




I totally concur with Steve. I do believe it's the intent of the club
management to count a letter once per different callsign. Not a letter
counting 3 times for 1 contact.
I was clicking on traces last month looking for a 3rd "A" in "COAXIAL
CABLE" for days.
I think that should carry forward to "ERIN GO BRAGH" or any effort to
spell out something.
Unofficially, that's the way I see it.
We'll see what management has to say.
Milt.
N6MG
----- Original Message -----
From: melachri
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?

I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the
official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The
Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple
occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2
different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if
there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as
applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used
once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and
5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word,
for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the
200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does
not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does.
(Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by
adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase
Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the
reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jerry N9AVY
 

I would have assumed that it was just one call sign per word/phrase. Don't see how anyone could see any ambiguity in this.

Perhaps it's because I have years of experience with 10-10 chapters which has "spell-it worksheets" which only allowed for one time use of a call sign.

Guess some folks like to take shortcuts and take the challenge out of activities.

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Tue, 3/20/12, Eric Dallmann <k9vic@arrl.net> wrote:

From: Eric Dallmann <k9vic@arrl.net>
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?
To: "070@yahoogroups.com" <070@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 6:03 PM

Weighing in as the Contest Manager, Steve and Milt have it correct.  One callsign, one occurrence of a letter (and a total of 500 points for spelling the entire phrase ERIN GO BRAGH).

There is some ambiguity in the way the rules are stated, and Steve's suggested addition would certainly help clarify things in the future.  As was pointed out, it's best to know these things before the contest, rather than rely on interpretations after the fact. (Unfortunately, ambiguities are often difficult to spot before hand.)

Eric/K9VIC
PODXS 070 Club Contest Manager


________________________________
From: Milton Garb <n6mg@verizon.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?


 
I totally concur with Steve. I do believe it's the intent of the club management to count a letter once per different callsign. Not a letter counting 3 times for 1 contact.
I was clicking on traces last month looking for a 3rd "A" in "COAXIAL CABLE" for days.
I think that should carry forward to "ERIN GO BRAGH" or any effort to spell out something.
Unofficially, that's the way I see it.
We'll see what management has to say.
Milt.
N6MG
----- Original Message -----
From: melachri
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?

I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------

Check out the 070 Club website at <http://www.podxs070.com/> for the latest information on 070 Club activities.



Yahoo! Groups Links


David Westbrook
 

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Guess some folks like to take shortcuts and take the challenge out of
activities.

Not a "shortcut" .. just a different interpretation ...
e.g. compare to scenario of the WOTMC June word being "ERIN", July="GO",
August="Braugh", and then a bonus for a "clean sweep". In that case, I
could count the same "R" callsign for two different words (months) ...
albeit if worked twice; but that's where the source of confusion comes in
when applied to the contest context. But an understandable confusion, not
a challenge-removing one.


Steve -- thanks for the link to last year's thread ... i totally forgot
about that!

--david
KJ4IZW


Jerry N9AVY
 

"Shortcut" was a poor choice of words.  Interpretation is more correct. Rules need to be written so that there is no room for interpretation, but it's probably not an easy task.

Jerry  N9AVY

--- On Tue, 3/20/12, David Westbrook <dwestbrook@gmail.com> wrote:

From: David Westbrook <dwestbrook@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 7:46 PM

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Guess some folks like to take shortcuts and take the challenge out of
activities.

Not a "shortcut"  .. just a different interpretation ...
e.g. compare to scenario of the WOTMC June word being "ERIN", July="GO",
August="Braugh", and then a bonus for a "clean sweep".    In that case, I
could count the same "R" callsign for two different words (months) ...
albeit if worked twice; but that's where the source of confusion comes in
when applied to the contest context.   But an understandable confusion, not
a challenge-removing one.


Steve -- thanks for the link to last year's thread ... i totally forgot
about that!

--david
KJ4IZW


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Check out the 070 Club website at <http://www.podxs070.com/> for the latest information on 070 Club activities.



Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ted Krempa <trkrempa@...>
 

now, why would you want to post something stupid like that?
 
we have new people joining every day. Some have not participated in our contests. The rules for this contest were not clear, despite the issue being discussed last year. You always seem to want to be the 'last word' on everything. Maybe insulting people is not the way to go, Jerry. I would have been better off submitting my log and claiming the 500 points, but since it was not clear, I asked, and took the 300 points instead.
 
TK, K7TRK said that

From: Jerry <n9avy@sbcglobal.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Re: scoring question?


 
Guess some folks like to take shortcuts and take the challenge out of activities.

Jerry  N9AVY


Eric Dallmann
 

Mark's home but still under the weather, so I don't want to (I'm trying to avoid a really bad metaphor here) intrude on his domain as the manager of the reflector.

But perhaps emotions are getting a bit strong on this thread.  Maybe we should just drop the discussion, submit our scores, and see where the chips may fall.  No matter how the scoring goes, we're all subject to the same rules, and the interpretation (which is how you'd have been scored anyway) will apply equally to everyone.

Although I made relatively few contacts in the contest, I had a lot of fun.  I hope others did as well.

Eric/K9VIC


________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


boat.anchor <boat.anchor@...>
 

Eric
Is there a special award for low score hi hi.
Barry
VA7GEM


Although I made relatively few contacts in the contest, I had a lot of fun.  I hope others did as well.

Eric/K9VIC


________________________________



David Westbrook
 

Eric -- as an example, would NO8R on 20M be ok as the ERIN "R", and NO8R on
40M as the BRAGH "R"?

Could go either way -- just needs an official arbitrary clarification:
Argument for "yes" is that they're separate, valid, point-scoring
contacts.
Argument for "no" is that it's the same callsign.

I'm working on updating the scoring utility, so need the exact logic to
implement ...

thanks!
--david
KJ4IZW

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Eric Dallmann <k9vic@arrl.net> wrote:

**


Mark's home but still under the weather, so I don't want to (I'm trying to
avoid a really bad metaphor here) intrude on his domain as the manager of
the reflector.

But perhaps emotions are getting a bit strong on this thread. Maybe we
should just drop the discussion, submit our scores, and see where the chips
may fall. No matter how the scoring goes, we're all subject to the same
rules, and the interpretation (which is how you'd have been scored anyway)
will apply equally to everyone.

Although I made relatively few contacts in the contest, I had a lot of
fun. I hope others did as well.

Eric/K9VIC

________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Charlie Trice, K8IJ <ctrice@...>
 

Well... I go away for a few days on business and see what fills up my mailbox.


Steve is dead on. As usual. What a great unofficial Rules Maven he is.


Thanks OM Steve!


Vy 73,


Charlie, K8IJ - (going into Club catch up mode)

----- Original Message -----
From: "melachri" <w3hf@arrl.net>
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:46:16 PM
Subject: [070] Re: scoring question?






I guess we have this conversation every year. See

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/070/message/26208

and the responses.

Here's my take. Remember that it's unofficial, as I'm no longer the official 070 Rules Maven.

Note that the contest rules say "In the same spirit of the Word Of The Month Challenges." So let's refer to the WOTM rules. They say:

"A callsign can be used only 1 time for a monthly submission wih multiple occurrences of a letter (so for February's "COAXIAL CABLE" you must work 2 different stations with the Suffix Letter "C")."

So it's clear that for WOTM, a callsign can only be used once even if there are multiple words. I believe that "the spirit of the rules" as applied to the contest would imply that a single callsign can only be used once for the multiple words required for the contest bonus.

As a result, spelling ERIN, GO, and BRAGH require, respectively, 4,2, and 5 QSOs with unique stations, none of which can be reused for another word, for a total of 11 QSOs with 11 separate and distinct stations to claim the 200 point "bonus bonus."

Now I will admit that the reference to WOTM is not perfect as WOTM does not give partial credit for spelling individual words, as the contest does. (Hint to management coming.) So maybe the contest rules could be tweaked by adding something like:

"Note that a single callsign can only be used once anywhere in the phrase Erin Go Bragh, even if credit for only two words is claimed."

But I do believe that the above is both the intent of the club and the reasonable interpretation of the contest rules as written.

Steve
W3HF