arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


AA8QQJMauch@...
 

Steve and others,
Is anyone even SURE Bill sent this email? Or could it be another Internet
hoax? Think I'll wait for Big Brother (ARRL) to announce it.
73,
Jay - AA8QQ


kg9ni <kg9ni@...>
 

Hello all. ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news. The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster. Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs. That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI


Steve W3HF
 

Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs. That would be pretty cool...
I've been thinking about this since last evening, when I first saw this
announcement. If any overseas 070 member is interested, I would
be happy to be a "mailing point" for you, and forward to you cards
"in bulk." US mailing rates are US$0.80 per ounce, and one ounce
should be able to mail multiple cards. (I do not know how many
since I only ordered my first mailed eQSL last night.)

One other note, though. Although it appears to be true that Bill
Moore has sent that email that "authorizes" mailed eQSLs, we still
have not heard a formal announcement from the ARRL or the
"higher-ups" in the DXCC heierarchy. I believe that the positions
stated by Bill in his email are exactly correct, and by any reasonable
interpretation of the DXCC rules this is okay. Bill's email has stated
his position, but he is "only" the DXCC Supervisor. (I just checked
on the ARRL web site.) He must administer rules as developed and
interpreted by the DX Advisory Committee. Until we see a formal
statement from them, this interpretation could be at risk.

And I hate to be a cynic here, as it is not my general nature. But we
are talking about business here, and if ARRL starts accepting
eQSLs, it will be a viable competitor to their own Logbook of the
World program.

I hope my fears are unwarranted, as I would like this to work. And
as I've said, I have already started ordering some paper eQSLs for
countries that I have not QSLed yet on paper. But I believe there is
plenty of room for skepticism, and I look forward to a formal
announcement from the ARRL, one way or another, early next week.

Steve
W3HF

P.S. Does the term "paper eQSL" strike anyone else as an
oxymoron?


Steve W3HF
 

Steve and others,
Is anyone even SURE Bill sent this email? Or could it be another
Internet hoax? Think I'll wait for Big Brother (ARRL) to announce it.
73, Jay - AA8QQ
Jay -

That's one reason I used the wording "Although it appears to be true
that Bill Moore has sent that email .." in my message. I haven't seen
the actual email headers, and I know even email headers can be
faked.

But I do know Rich W3ZJ, at least by email. And I also know that the
eQSL organization would have to be incredibly stupid to publicize
something like this if it were fraudulent. They would lose all
credibility, and I believe (and would hope) the amateur community
would dissociate itself from them, if they faked it.

So the case that I suggest is that, although Bill Moore has stated his
position, he might still be overruled by the DXAC. That is what I was
trying to imply in my message. I hope not, but I am cautious.

Steve


Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

When do you think Bill Moore is going to make an official announcement, Ernest?  I haven't seen anything from the League as yet.  Until I do, I'm not going to buy into the program.  I hope they do accept printed eQSL cards.  it would make sense.  But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Dick
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: kg9ni
To: 070@...
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Hello all.  ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news.  The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster.  Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs.  That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc  (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI



   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
the latest information on 070 Club activities.
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070-unsubscribe@... or N3DQU@....



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Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

Ernest, I dropped an e-mail to Bill Moore to ask for a carification on the DXCC acceptance of eQSL cards. 
 
Here is his response to me.  I wish it was more positive.  
 
Response from Bill Moore at ARRL: 
 
Hi Dick:
 
I was quoted out of context. If you read my message closely you'll see.
 
However, DXCC has not changed its position with regards to e-QSLs.
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick - WB0DUL 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:02 PM
To: dxcc@...
Subject: Fw: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Hi Bill,
 
I received the following e-mail from the 070 site on Yahoo Groups.  Is there any truth to it?  I haven't seen anything on http://www.arrl.org/
Until I do, I'm not buying the announcement.  Many are waiting for word that it is true.  It would make sense if it was.  If it is, then an announcement would be nice.  The alleged e-mail from you is posted on the eQSL site (see link in message below). 
 
Hope to hear back from you. 
 
73,
 
Dick
wb0dul@...
----- Original Message -----
From: kg9ni
To: 070@...
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Hello all.  ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news.  The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster.  Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs.  That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc  (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI


Steve W3HF
 

Dick -
 
I guess I'm not sure what Bill means by "quoted out of context." Both the email posting on the TARA group and the page on the eQSL web site APPEAR to be complete copies of Bill's email. Ernest's announcement is admittedly abbreviated, but I believe it has the same information regarding the card itself. (It must be a printed card, created by eQSL, not the recipient, and sent to the recipient as a printed card, such as by mail.)
 
The only thing missing is the statement regarding "checking the log to verify the contact." Here's where maybe it gets a little sticky. I believe Bill's intent here is that the "QSL Manager" (in this case eQSL) compares the QSO information submitted by me to the logs of the DX station, and only creates a QSL when that information matches. That is the typical routine for a manager. But there are some cases where QSL managers simply QSL all contacts whether requested or not. In this case, there is no "log comparison," as the manager simply QSLs based on his own information. The latter is what eQSL does. If a DX station sends me an eQSL, I can print and receive that card without formally confirming it. And there is no indication of that on the eQSL card.
 
The spin that the eQSL folks are putting on it, based on Bill's email, is that in order for the card to be valid for DXCC, **I** must compare the card to **my** log and verify the contact. Typically I will then send a confirming reply via the eQSL system. And once I make this comparison, and then have eQSL print and mail a card, the card will be valid for DXCC.
 
Each person should read Bill's email in its entirety, and compare it to the process described by eQSL, and form their own opinion on whether Bill is being misinterpreted.
 
Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear to be inconsistent, when I don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I believe two things need to happen:
 
1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding this.
2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are correct, and that cards created that way will be accepted.
 
So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.) But Bill is not the final authority on DXCC, and until they speak formally, this issue is not settled. I hope they are working on this.
 
Steve
W3HF
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Thompson [mailto:wb0dul@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:50 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Ernest, I dropped an e-mail to Bill Moore to ask for a carification on the DXCC acceptance of eQSL cards. 
 
Here is his response to me.  I wish it was more positive.  
 
Response from Bill Moore at ARRL: 
 
Hi Dick:
 
I was quoted out of context. If you read my message closely you'll see.
 
However, DXCC has not changed its position with regards to e-QSLs.
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick - WB0DUL 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:02 PM
To: dxcc@...
Subject: Fw: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Hi Bill,
 
I received the following e-mail from the 070 site on Yahoo Groups.  Is there any truth to it?  I haven't seen anything on http://www.arrl.org/
Until I do, I'm not buying the announcement.  Many are waiting for word that it is true.  It would make sense if it was.  If it is, then an announcement would be nice.  The alleged e-mail from you is posted on the eQSL site (see link in message below). 
 
Hope to hear back from you. 
 
73,
 
Dick
wb0dul@...
----- Original Message -----
From: kg9ni
To: 070@...
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Hello all.  ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news.  The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster.  Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs.  That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc  (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI



   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
the latest information on 070 Club activities.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
070-unsubscribe@... or N3DQU@....



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Costas Krallis SV1XV <sv1xv@...>
 

At 20:29 12/2/2002 -0500, you wrote:

Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear to be inconsistent, when I
don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I believe two things need to happen:

1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding this.
2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are correct, and that
cards created that way will be accepted.

So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.)

Another issue here is: How do they (ARRL) know that a card is printed by eQSL.CC and
mailed instead of being printed locally by the recipient? I think that some type of signature
and/or rubber stamp endorsement at eQSL is essential.

73 Costas SV1XV






+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA |
| P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr |
| GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 |
| GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ |
| * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

I agree with what you say, 100%, Steve.  I was a little puzzled by Bill Moore's reply, and was wondering to myself whether his statement that the League's Position hasn't changed on DXCC or whether he's saying that the Leagues position hasn't changed as long as they have a printed QSL card.  He was not very clear, and I think I am going to write to him again and ask why he feels he was quoted out of context.  Maybe we should all write to him and ask what gives.  It would be interesting if the ARRL would put out a formal statement on how they stand.  In short I think they are concerned that their own Logbook of the World would be jeopardized.  I really doubt that is the case. 
 
It's getting very expensive to QSL these days.  That applies from our end and the DX stations end.  I have never been able to understand how a QSL sent electronically could be construed as unacceptable.  What does a "printed" QSL have that makes it superior? 
 
Maybe I'm missing something here, maybe not. 
 
Thanks for responding, Steve.  I appreciate your comments. 
 
73,
 
Dick
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Dick -
 
I guess I'm not sure what Bill means by "quoted out of context." Both the email posting on the TARA group and the page on the eQSL web site APPEAR to be complete copies of Bill's email. Ernest's announcement is admittedly abbreviated, but I believe it has the same information regarding the card itself. (It must be a printed card, created by eQSL, not the recipient, and sent to the recipient as a printed card, such as by mail.)
 
The only thing missing is the statement regarding "checking the log to verify the contact." Here's where maybe it gets a little sticky. I believe Bill's intent here is that the "QSL Manager" (in this case eQSL) compares the QSO information submitted by me to the logs of the DX station, and only creates a QSL when that information matches. That is the typical routine for a manager. But there are some cases where QSL managers simply QSL all contacts whether requested or not. In this case, there is no "log comparison," as the manager simply QSLs based on his own information. The latter is what eQSL does. If a DX station sends me an eQSL, I can print and receive that card without formally confirming it. And there is no indication of that on the eQSL card.
 
The spin that the eQSL folks are putting on it, based on Bill's email, is that in order for the card to be valid for DXCC, **I** must compare the card to **my** log and verify the contact. Typically I will then send a confirming reply via the eQSL system. And once I make this comparison, and then have eQSL print and mail a card, the card will be valid for DXCC.
 
Each person should read Bill's email in its entirety, and compare it to the process described by eQSL, and form their own opinion on whether Bill is being misinterpreted.
 
Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear to be inconsistent, when I don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I believe two things need to happen:
 
1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding this.
2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are correct, and that cards created that way will be accepted.
 
So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.) But Bill is not the final authority on DXCC, and until they speak formally, this issue is not settled. I hope they are working on this.
 
Steve
W3HF
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Thompson [mailto:wb0dul@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:50 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Ernest, I dropped an e-mail to Bill Moore to ask for a carification on the DXCC acceptance of eQSL cards. 
 
Here is his response to me.  I wish it was more positive.  
 
Response from Bill Moore at ARRL: 
 
Hi Dick:
 
I was quoted out of context. If you read my message closely you'll see.
 
However, DXCC has not changed its position with regards to e-QSLs.
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick - WB0DUL 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:02 PM
To: dxcc@...
Subject: Fw: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Hi Bill,
 
I received the following e-mail from the 070 site on Yahoo Groups.  Is there any truth to it?  I haven't seen anything on http://www.arrl.org/
Until I do, I'm not buying the announcement.  Many are waiting for word that it is true.  It would make sense if it was.  If it is, then an announcement would be nice.  The alleged e-mail from you is posted on the eQSL site (see link in message below). 
 
Hope to hear back from you. 
 
73,
 
Dick
wb0dul@...
----- Original Message -----
From: kg9ni
To: 070@...
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Hello all.  ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news.  The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster.  Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs.  That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc  (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI



   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
the latest information on 070 Club activities.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
070-unsubscribe@... or N3DQU@....



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
the latest information on 070 Club activities.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
070-unsubscribe@... or N3DQU@....



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Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

Costas, write to Bill Moore at dxcc@..., and express your feelings to him directly.  I agree that clarification is needed.  A can of worms has been opened by Bill Moore and now he needs to clarify what he said and/or put it to rest. 
 
73,
 
Dick
 
 

----- Original Message -----
To: 070@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

At 20:29 12/2/2002 -0500, you wrote:

> Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear to be inconsistent, when I
> don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I believe two things need to happen:
>
> 1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding this.
> 2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are correct, and that
>     cards created that way will be accepted.
>
> So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.)


Another issue here is: How do they (ARRL) know that a card is printed by eQSL.CC and
mailed instead of being printed locally by the recipient? I think that some type of signature
and/or rubber stamp endorsement at eQSL is essential.

73  Costas SV1XV






+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Costas Krallis SV1XV      *   LOC KM18UA                   |
| P.O.Box 3066              *   E-Mail: sv1xv@...        |
| GR-10210 Athens           *   PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34          |
| GREECE                    *   http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/    |
|                           *   http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/   |
+------------------------------------------------------------+



   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
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Bills4570@...
 

Dick,

Sure appreciate your efforts (and those of others as
well) at getting this issue resolved. Keep up the pressure!

I'm kinda new at this, but lately, with the 14 to 29 Mhz
bands as open as they are, I get the idea that working
100 DXCC entities is nowhere near as challenging as
getting 100 paper QSL returns. Maybey that isn't the
case when the sunspots dry up and blow away, but I
thought this DXCC challenge thingie was supposed to be
about radios, antennas, propogation, sleepless nights,
sensitive receivers and expeditions; not the intricacies
of the international postal systems. The way it is, the
emphasis is on the wrong skill......... or am I missing
something here?? Maybe we need to run half watt QRP just
to even up the challenge.............or enter the 21st
century like the rest of the world.

73, Bill
KG6EXF

I agree with what you say, 100%, Steve. I was a little puzzled by Bill Moore's
reply, and was wondering to myself whether his statement that the League's
Position hasn't changed on DXCC or whether he's saying that the Leagues position
hasn't changed as long as they have a printed QSL card. He was not very clear,
and I think I am going to write to him again and ask why he feels he was quoted
out of context. Maybe we should all write to him and ask what gives. It would
be interesting if the ARRL would put out a formal statement on how they stand.
In short I think they are concerned that their own Logbook of the World would be
jeopardized. I really doubt that is the case.

It's getting very expensive to QSL these days. That applies from our end and
the DX stations end. I have never been able to understand how a QSL sent
electronically could be construed as unacceptable. What does a "printed" QSL
have that makes it superior?

Maybe I'm missing something here, maybe not.

Thanks for responding, Steve. I appreciate your comments.

73,

Dick
wb0dul@arrl.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Melachrinos, Stephen J
To: '070@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Dick -

I guess I'm not sure what Bill means by "quoted out of context." Both the
email posting on the TARA group and the page on the eQSL web site APPEAR to be
complete copies of Bill's email. Ernest's announcement is admittedly
abbreviated, but I believe it has the same information regarding the card
itself. (It must be a printed card, created by eQSL, not the recipient, and sent
to the recipient as a printed card, such as by mail.)

The only thing missing is the statement regarding "checking the log to verify
the contact." Here's where maybe it gets a little sticky. I believe Bill's > intent here is that the "QSL Manager" (in this case eQSL) compares the QSO
information submitted by me to the logs of the DX station, and only creates a
QSL when that information matches. That is the typical routine for a manager.
But there are some cases where QSL managers simply QSL all contacts whether
requested or not. In this case, there is no "log comparison," as the manager
simply QSLs based on his own information. The latter is what eQSL does. If a DX
station sends me an eQSL, I can print and receive that card without formally
confirming it. And there is no indication of that on the eQSL card.

The spin that the eQSL folks are putting on it, based on Bill's email, is that
in order for the card to be valid for DXCC, **I** must compare the card to
**my** log and verify the contact. Typically I will then send a confirming reply
via the eQSL system. And once I make this comparison, and then have eQSL print
and mail a card, the card will be valid for DXCC.

Each person should read Bill's email in its entirety, and compare it to the
process described by eQSL, and form their own opinion on whether Bill is being
misinterpreted.

Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear
to be inconsistent, when I don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this
point, I believe two things need to happen:

1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding
this.
2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are
correct, and that cards created that way will be accepted.

So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it.
(Correctly, in my opinion.) But Bill is not the final authority on DXCC, and
until they speak formally, this issue is not settled. I hope they are working on
this.

Steve
W3HF


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Thompson [mailto:wb0dul@arrl.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:50 PM
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Ernest, I dropped an e-mail to Bill Moore to ask for a carification on the
DXCC acceptance of eQSL cards.

Here is his response to me. I wish it was more positive.

Response from Bill Moore at ARRL:

Hi Dick:

I was quoted out of context. If you read my message closely you'll see.

However, DXCC has not changed its position with regards to e-QSLs.

73

Bill Moore NC1L



-----Original Message-----
From: Dick - WB0DUL
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:02 PM
To: dxcc@arrl.org
Subject: Fw: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Hi Bill,

I received the following e-mail from the 070 site on Yahoo Groups. Is there
any truth to it? I haven't seen anything on http://www.arrl.org/
Until I do, I'm not buying the announcement. Many are waiting for word that > it is true. It would make sense if it was. If it is, then an announcement
would be nice. The alleged e-mail from you is posted on the eQSL site (see link
in message below).

Hope to hear back from you.

73,

Dick
wb0dul@arrl.net
----- Original Message -----
From: kg9ni
To: 070@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


Hello all. ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news. The eQSL
cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
(I think) & a lot faster. Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
postage costs. That would be pretty cool...

News at:
http://www.eqsl.cc (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)

Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!

73-
Ernest
KG9NI




Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
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AA8QQJMauch@...
 

Bill,
I don't think it's a matter of the intricacies of the international postal
systems so much as the back door politicking up in Newington. And, if you
want to up the ante by running QRPp, better try a different mode. I've run
PSK31 from 5 to 75 watts and have had 599's at both levels, with an antenna
made of a soda pop can and some hookup wire. I haven't tried it transmitting
thru my dummy load yet... hmmm, now there's an idea. Anyone wanna try
setting a new record? Longest dx on 5 watts and a nonradiating dummy load.
If it can be done, PSK's the mode.

73,
Jay - AA8QQ


AA8QQJMauch@...
 

from the arrl web site:

NEWINGTON, CT, Aug 2, 2001--Fast on the heels of approval of the
"Logbook of the World" by the ARRL Board of Directors, ...

Should read
... Fast on the heels of eQSL, the ARRL Board of Directors,...

de AA8QQ


kf4hou <kf4hou@...>
 

From: Moore, Bill, NC1L [mailto:bmoore@arrl.org]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'Richard B. Drake'
Cc: DXCC
Subject: RE: Professionally Printed and mailed eQSL's
Hi Rich:
Something does not sound right here. You are saying that Dave is
physically mailing out QSL cards by the US postal system? This is
news to me.

If you are my QSL manager and I send you my logs by e-mail, I am
sending them direct from point A to point B. Just as if I was sending
them to you by regular mail. This is OK. I remember somewhere several
years ago that some people used to get their logs over the air on
RTTY and another digital mode (AMTOR I think). Not a problem.

However, if as the result of a log being sent to E-QSL, someone goes
in and receives a card electronically and uses it for DXCC, that e-
QSL cannot be accepted for DXCC credit under rule 2. I spent a bit of
time with a simple shareware program to prove the unreliability of
that method.

However, if Dave, acting as QSL manager with station logs completes a
card (even one from his printer) and sends it by mail to you, this is
an acceptable exchange and we have see this often for several years
now. (assuming he phyiscally checks the log). Many people use self-
made cards from their printer. Each one is evaluated on a case by
case basis, and many times under Section IV rule 4(b) we have
conducted an audit to insure the vaildity of a card like this.

In cases like this it would be REAL nice if they used a stamp or
placed their initials or signature on it, but this is not required by
the rules. However, this issue has been discussed and has been given
some consideration.

To clarify, if Dave is sending out cards through the US Postal System
as the result of the log(s) he receives, this is OK. (This would
basically be operating as QSL manager).

Regards,

Bill Moore NC1L
DXCC Manager

Note: Use of this message is authorized in discussions as long as it
is used in its entirity and as long as parts are not edited out.


Costas, write to Bill Moore at dxcc@a..., and express your feelings
to him directly. I agree that clarification is needed. A can of
worms has been opened by Bill Moore and now he needs to clarify what
he said and/or put it to rest.

73,

Dick
wb0dul@a...


----- Original Message -----
From: Costas Krallis SV1XV
To: 070@y...
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


At 20:29 12/2/2002 -0500, you wrote:

> Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's
email's appear to be inconsistent, when I
> don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I
believe two things need to happen:
>
> 1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the
ARRL regarding this.
> 2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL
site are correct, and that
> cards created that way will be accepted.
>
> So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has
interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.)


Another issue here is: How do they (ARRL) know that a card is
printed by eQSL.CC and
mailed instead of being printed locally by the recipient? I think
that some type of signature
and/or rubber stamp endorsement at eQSL is essential.

73 Costas SV1XV






+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA |
| P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@e... |
| GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 |
| GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ |
| * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


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Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

Hi Bill,
 
Well, I'm not on a crusade here.  I just want a clarification of what Bill Moore really said or what he meant when he said it.  A simple "If cards are printed by a printer and sent to you through eQSL and eQSL has verified your logbook, qualifies as a legitimate contact" should be enough.  I'm a supporter af the ARRL.  They have done a lot for amateur radio over the years.  But they should also take into consideration the cost of sending and (hopefully) receiving a QSL card for confirmation of a country. 
 
I think we should all write to Bill Moore.  His address is dxcc@....  We should push for a clarification from the League.  Bill simply manages the program, the League makes the decisions.  He says that he was quoted "out of context."  Well, I read his e-mail on eQSL and I don't quite understand his statement. 
 
Write to him.  Maybe a little pressure from everyone will help get a decision from the League.  It may not be the decision we want to hear, but at least we would know where they stand. 
 
73,
 
Dick
070 Member # 180
 

----- Original Message -----
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Dick,

Sure appreciate your efforts (and those of others as
well) at getting this issue resolved.  Keep up the pressure!

I'm kinda new at this, but lately, with the 14 to 29 Mhz
bands as open as they are, I get the idea that working
100 DXCC entities is nowhere near as challenging as
getting 100 paper QSL returns.  Maybey that isn't the
case when the sunspots dry up and blow away, but I
thought this DXCC challenge thingie was supposed to be
about radios, antennas, propogation, sleepless nights,
sensitive receivers and expeditions; not the intricacies
of the international postal systems.  The way it is, the
emphasis is on the wrong skill......... or am I missing
something here?? Maybe we need to run half watt QRP just
to even up the challenge.............or enter the 21st
century like the rest of the world.

73,  Bill
KG6EXF
> I agree with what you say, 100%, Steve.  I was a little puzzled by Bill Moore's
> reply, and was wondering to myself whether his statement that the League's
> Position hasn't changed on DXCC or whether he's saying that the Leagues position
> hasn't changed as long as they have a printed QSL card.  He was not very clear,
> and I think I am going to write to him again and ask why he feels he was quoted
> out of context.  Maybe we should all write to him and ask what gives.  It would
> be interesting if the ARRL would put out a formal statement on how they stand. 
> In short I think they are concerned that their own Logbook of the World would be
> jeopardized.  I really doubt that is the case. 
>
> It's getting very expensive to QSL these days.  That applies from our end and
> the DX stations end.  I have never been able to understand how a QSL sent
> electronically could be construed as unacceptable.  What does a "printed" QSL
> have that makes it superior? 
>
> Maybe I'm missing something here, maybe not. 
>
> Thanks for responding, Steve.  I appreciate your comments. 
>
> 73,
>
> Dick
> wb0dul@...
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Melachrinos, Stephen J
>   To: '070@...'
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:29 PM
>   Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit
>
>
>   Dick -
>
>   I guess I'm not sure what Bill means by "quoted out of context." Both the
> email posting on the TARA group and the page on the eQSL web site APPEAR to be
> complete copies of Bill's email. Ernest's announcement is admittedly
> abbreviated, but I believe it has the same information regarding the card
> itself. (It must be a printed card, created by eQSL, not the recipient, and sent
> to the recipient as a printed card, such as by mail.)
>
>   The only thing missing is the statement regarding "checking the log to verify
> the contact." Here's where maybe it gets a little sticky. I believe Bill's > intent here is that the "QSL Manager" (in this case eQSL) compares the QSO
> information submitted by me to the logs of the DX station, and only creates a
> QSL when that information matches. That is the typical routine for a manager.
> But there are some cases where QSL managers simply QSL all contacts whether
> requested or not. In this case, there is no "log comparison," as the manager
> simply QSLs based on his own information. The latter is what eQSL does. If a DX
> station sends me an eQSL, I can print and receive that card without formally
> confirming it. And there is no indication of that on the eQSL card.
>
>   The spin that the eQSL folks are putting on it, based on Bill's email, is that
> in order for the card to be valid for DXCC, **I** must compare the card to
> **my** log and verify the contact. Typically I will then send a confirming reply
> via the eQSL system. And once I make this comparison, and then have eQSL print
> and mail a card, the card will be valid for DXCC.
>
>   Each person should read Bill's email in its entirety, and compare it to the
> process described by eQSL, and form their own opinion on whether Bill is being
> misinterpreted.
>
>   Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's email's appear
> to be inconsistent, when I don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this
> point, I believe two things need to happen:
>
>   1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the ARRL regarding
> this.
>   2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL site are
> correct, and that cards created that way will be accepted.
>
>   So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has interpreted it.
> (Correctly, in my opinion.) But Bill is not the final authority on DXCC, and
> until they speak formally, this issue is not settled. I hope they are working on
> this.
>
>   Steve
>   W3HF
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Dick Thompson [mailto:wb0dul@...]
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:50 PM
>     To: 070@...
>     Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit
>
>
>     Ernest, I dropped an e-mail to Bill Moore to ask for a carification on the
> DXCC acceptance of eQSL cards. 
>
>     Here is his response to me.  I wish it was more positive. 
>
>     Response from Bill Moore at ARRL: 
>
>     Hi Dick:
>     
>     I was quoted out of context. If you read my message closely you'll see.
>     
>     However, DXCC has not changed its position with regards to e-QSLs.
>     
>     73
>     
>     Bill Moore NC1L
>     
>     
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Dick - WB0DUL
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:02 PM
>     To: dxcc@...
>     Subject: Fw: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit
>
>
>     Hi Bill,
>     
>     I received the following e-mail from the 070 site on Yahoo Groups.  Is there
> any truth to it?  I haven't seen anything on http://www.arrl.org/
>     Until I do, I'm not buying the announcement.  Many are waiting for word that > it is true.  It would make sense if it was.  If it is, then an announcement
> would be nice.  The alleged e-mail from you is posted on the eQSL site (see link
> in message below). 
>     
>     Hope to hear back from you. 
>     
>     73,
>     
>     Dick
>     wb0dul@...
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: kg9ni
>       To: 070@...
>       Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:29 PM
>       Subject: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit
>
>
>       Hello all.  ARRL is accepting eQSLs that are printed and mailed via
>       the eQSL mailing service for DXCC credit...this is big news.  The eQSL
>       cost is still a buck a card--less than direct DX postage in most cases
>       (I think) & a lot faster.  Currently eQSL can only mail out to US
>       addresses, but I expect that we might(???) see eQSL mailing points
>       cropping up in DX locations to provide the same service there w/o DX
>       postage costs.  That would be pretty cool...
>
>       News at:
>       http://www.eqsl.cc  (login and read the news...February 8, 2002 email
>       from Bill Moore, NC1L, is there in its entirety)
>
>       Thanks to Bob, VX4XA (VE4XA) for letting me know!
>
>       73-
>       Ernest
>       KG9NI
>
>
>
>
>        Check out the 070 Club website at
>     < http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
>     the latest information on 070 Club activities.
>       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     070-unsubscribe@... or N3DQU@....
>
>
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>             
>       
>       
>
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>   the latest information on 070 Club activities.
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>
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>


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Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

This may be duplicated to several Yahoo groups, but I wrote to Bill Moore at the ARRL.  This is the response I got.  Maybe the League has told him to "shut up?" 
 
Dick
 
 
Hi Dick:
 
There has been no change in ARRL policy regarding e-QSLs. To see what ARRL
is currently doing see this site:
 
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/
<http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/>
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L

----- Original Message -----
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

Bill,
I don't think it's a matter of the intricacies of the international postal
systems so much as the back door politicking up in Newington.  And, if you
want to up the ante by running QRPp, better try a different mode.  I've run
PSK31 from 5 to 75 watts and have had 599's at both levels, with an antenna
made of a soda pop can and some hookup wire.  I haven't tried it transmitting
thru my dummy load yet...  hmmm, now there's an idea.  Anyone wanna try
setting a new record?  Longest dx on 5 watts and a nonradiating dummy load. 
If it can be done, PSK's the mode.

73,
Jay - AA8QQ


   Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
the latest information on 070 Club activities.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Dick Thompson <wb0dul@...>
 

I received another reply from Bill Moore.  He sure doesn't say much.  Has he been told by higher-ups to put a lid on it?  Below is his response to my last e-mail.
 
Dick
 
 
Hi Dick:
 
There has been no change in ARRL policy regarding e-QSLs. To see what ARRL
is currently doing see this site:
 
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/
<http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/>
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L
 

----- Original Message -----
From: kf4hou
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:33 AM
Subject: [070] Re: arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

From: Moore, Bill, NC1L [mailto:bmoore@...]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'Richard B. Drake'
Cc: DXCC
Subject: RE: Professionally Printed and mailed eQSL's 
Hi Rich:
Something does not sound right here. You are saying that Dave is
physically mailing out QSL cards by the US postal system? This is
news to me.

If you are my QSL manager and I send you my logs by e-mail, I am
sending them direct from point A to point B. Just as if I was sending
them to you by regular mail. This is OK. I remember somewhere several
years ago that some people used to get their logs over the air on
RTTY and another digital mode (AMTOR I think). Not a problem.

However, if as the result of a log being sent to E-QSL, someone goes
in and receives a card electronically and uses it for DXCC, that e-
QSL cannot be accepted for DXCC credit under rule 2. I spent a bit of
time with a simple shareware program to prove the unreliability of
that method.

However, if Dave, acting as QSL manager with station logs completes a
card (even one from his printer) and sends it by mail to you, this is
an acceptable exchange and we have see this often for several years
now. (assuming he phyiscally checks the log). Many people use self-
made cards from their printer. Each one is evaluated on a case by
case basis, and many times under Section IV rule 4(b) we have
conducted an audit to insure the vaildity of a card like this.

In cases like this it would be REAL nice if they used a stamp or
placed their initials or signature on it, but this is not required by
the rules. However, this issue has been discussed and has been given
some consideration.

To clarify, if Dave is sending out cards through the US Postal System
as the result of the log(s) he receives, this is OK. (This would
basically be operating as QSL manager).

Regards,

Bill Moore NC1L
DXCC Manager

Note: Use of this message is authorized in discussions as long as it
is used in its entirity and as long as parts are not edited out.


> Costas, write to Bill Moore at dxcc@a..., and express your feelings
to him directly.  I agree that clarification is needed.  A can of
worms has been opened by Bill Moore and now he needs to clarify what
he said and/or put it to rest. 
>
> 73,
>
> Dick
> wb0dul@a...
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Costas Krallis SV1XV
>   To: 070@y...
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:00 PM
>   Subject: RE: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit
>
>
>   At 20:29 12/2/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
>   > Unfortunately this thing is still spinning out of hand. Bill's
email's appear to be inconsistent, when I
>   > don't believe he intends them to be that way. At this point, I
believe two things need to happen:
>   >
>   > 1. There needs to be some sort of formal announcement from the
ARRL regarding this.
>   > 2. The ARRL needs to agree that the steps laid out on the eQSL
site are correct, and that
>   >     cards created that way will be accepted.
>   >
>   > So far I think Bill has stated a process, and eQSL has
interpreted it. (Correctly, in my opinion.)
>
>
>   Another issue here is: How do they (ARRL) know that a card is
printed by eQSL.CC and
>   mailed instead of being printed locally by the recipient? I think
that some type of signature
>   and/or rubber stamp endorsement at eQSL is essential.
>
>   73  Costas SV1XV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   +------------------------------------------------------------+
>   | Costas Krallis SV1XV      *   LOC KM18UA                   |
>   | P.O.Box 3066              *   E-Mail: sv1xv@e...        |
>   | GR-10210 Athens           *   PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34          |
>   | GREECE                    *   http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/    |
>   |                           *   http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/   |
>   +------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>             
>       
>       
>
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>   the latest information on 070 Club activities.
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   070-unsubscribe@y... or N3DQU@a...
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.



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< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
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Steve W3HF
 

I think we need to come up with a different term. The name "eQSL" still apparently means (to Bill) a QSL that is delivered electronically to the ultimate recipient. I have used the term "paper eQSL" to denote the paper card that eQSL will send to you for a service charge of US$1, but perhaps that term is confusing. It certainly seems like an oxymoron to me.
 
Bill made it clear that if eQSL sends a paper card, based on logs received (even electronically) from a station, then it is acting as a QSL manager and the cards would be valid. He specifically said that no signature or "stamp" was needed. I'm not sure what else might be required.
 
Steve
W3HF

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Thompson [mailto:wb0dul@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:58 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit

This may be duplicated to several Yahoo groups, but I wrote to Bill Moore at the ARRL.  This is the response I got.  Maybe the League has told him to "shut up?" 
 
Dick
 
 
Hi Dick:
 
There has been no change in ARRL policy regarding e-QSLs. To see what ARRL
is currently doing see this site:
 
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/
<http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/08/02/3/>
 
73
 
Bill Moore NC1L


Tom <tomias@...>
 

Opinion - The ARRL is not going to do anything that will jepordize their
control and or income .... using eqsl could/would do both .... see March
2002 QST, "It Seems To Us" where financial woes relating to QST are
discussed.

The ARRL board of directors make the policy and decisions.... all others are
employees ... ask your respective division directors ... they can give a
clear answer to the questions raised .... but will they?

Tom, k3psk

----- Original Message -----
From: <AA8QQJMauch@aol.com>
To: <070@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [070] arrl is accepting eqsls for dxcc credit


from the arrl web site:

NEWINGTON, CT, Aug 2, 2001--Fast on the heels of approval of the
"Logbook of the World" by the ARRL Board of Directors, ...

Should read
... Fast on the heels of eQSL, the ARRL Board of Directors,...

de AA8QQ


Check out the 070 Club website at
< http://hometown.aol.com/n3dqu/podxs070.htm > for
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