On October 10, 2017 at 4:49 PM "tom@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:

 

So, I'm a least power to make the QSO type guy.  Consider this "devils advocate" since I've seen the discussion several times.  

Because FT8 can't decode as low of a DB level as JT65 and JT9, plus it doesn't have the same redundancy, people started cranking up the power to compensate.

FT8 also doesn't do super well decoding multiple signals on the same frequency.  So, the guy who runs power wins.

People claim that running high power doesn't cause splatter on the waterfall, that other things do (and it's usually on the receiver's side).  I'm not so sure about that, but that's the claim.

73,

Tom KN6Q

---In 070@..., <gdadx2@...> wrote :

I can't imagine running a KW on FT8 or any digital mode.  I have run power on RTTY when trying to work a new one but on daily basis, no way. 

But that would explain why I get comparatively much weaker signal reports even if  bump power up to 50 watts or more.

The power runners argument is that even at 500 watts, you can have a weak signal on the receivers end.   If I could not get a PSK or FT8 signal through at 500 watts, it's time to go fishing.

73 Buddy WB4M

#1545

On 10/10/2017 11:10 AM, Jonathan Wilson eaglescout.jonathan@... [070] wrote:

 

Why would you need to run that much power?  I've logged 70 or so contacts using my FT817 and a dipole in the last 3 days. 

On 10/9/17 6:46 PM, tom@... [070] wrote:

 

Many of the FT8 stations run a full KW. There is a lot of debate between the QRO/QRP people on FT8 groups (it's a weak signal mode, not low power mode).

Yep, Hellschreiber, Olivia, PSK - FT8 steps on lots of things.  Like I said, it's all based on the default settings in WSJT-X.  If they change the frequencies there, everyone will move.  Otherwise it's a lost cause and everything will have to move around them.

73,

Tom KN6Q

---In 070@..., <n9avy@...> wrote :

Ray:

 

14.040  ???   Don't you mean 14.070 ??

 

If there is no specific band plan for he digital modes then there will be chaos.  The FT8 crowd is already QRMing the Hellschreiber crowd.  When the RTTY signals start in Winter season, the FT8 guys will be complaining about QRM on 17m because many RTTY stations run 500 watts to a full KW. and that might be a problem.

 

This whole thing needs to be sorted out before our bands become intolerable.

---

From: "'Ray Clements' r.clements@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

As far as ARRL is concerned, PSK does not exist. Neither do most other digital modes. About the only digital modes included in their band plans are RTTY and Packet and SSTV. Beacon frequencies are also assigned.

Even our beloved 14.040 MHz PSK frequency is included as part of the RTTY sub-band. Thus,I guess those who use PSK at that frequency are infringing on the rights of RTTY users. 

http://www.arrl.org/band-plan

Thus, I guess we have no right to complain about FT8 using the same frequency.

Ray N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:17 PM CDT, 10/09/2017
From: "tom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: <070@...>
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

As someone who does both, the FT8 default frequencies are programmed in WSJT-X application (which is still in the release candidate 2 stage for FT8).   The best chance is to get them to change the frequency they use on when the release version (or RC3) comes out by complaining on the group. 

This isn't the only band/mode that has a conflict, I don't FT8 also runs into Olivia on 20 meters.

If your hoping FT8 goes away, I seriously doubt it anytime soon.  It has absolutely dominated every other digital mode for use since it came out.   Even JT65/JT9 modes are pretty dead now, especially JT9.

73,

Tom KN6Q  

---In 070@..., <rickocr2005@...> wrote :

I know I am late to the party, but trying on 17m now.....

Fr Richard
WB8YXF

On Monday, October 9, 2017, 11:46:24 AM EDT, 'Steve Case' artcase@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

I was there too for the last half hour, CQ'd saw nothing but FT8 sigs. I agree use it or lose it.

Steve

WA7ETE

PNW

#872

 

 

 

---

From: "randy true w4rttrandy@... [070]" <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 8:41 AM
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

 

Nope, just 20 FT8 signals.

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:11 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: RE: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

 

Not seeing you.  Can you see me?

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:02 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

I'm also there

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 10:57 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: RE: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

CQing there now.  The FT8 stations moved away from where I’m at.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 10:48 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

I just got into the digi modes a couple years ago, and I settled on PSK31 and have loved it. I did notice that whenever I went up to 17 and called there was seldom anyone around. I have made just a hand full of contacts on 17.

I do work FT8 and have mad many contacts on 17. But I try to keep above .100 because it is "our" freq. I think it was mostly, "hey these guys aren't using it, so lets us use it"

As the old saying says, if you don't use it you will lose it.

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 9:29 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

Probably not, but "venting" feels good.     I am hesitant to join another group after cleaning out several groups people urged me to join.  There were days I'd wake up and have way too many emails to answer; so, I purged many email accounts that held little interest. Just don't want to start down that road again.

 

I'm hoping that once the FT8 people tire of the mode, they'll just go away.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

---

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

 

Why would you need to run that much power?  I've logged 70 or so contacts using my FT817 and a dipole in the last 3 days. 

On 10/9/17 6:46 PM, tom@... [070] wrote:

 

Many of the FT8 stations run a full KW. There is a lot of debate between the QRO/QRP people on FT8 groups (it's a weak signal mode, not low power mode).

Yep, Hellschreiber, Olivia, PSK - FT8 steps on lots of things.  Like I said, it's all based on the default settings in WSJT-X.  If they change the frequencies there, everyone will move.  Otherwise it's a lost cause and everything will have to move around them.

73,

Tom KN6Q

---In 070@..., <n9avy@...> wrote :

Ray:

 

14.040  ???   Don't you mean 14.070 ??

 

If there is no specific band plan for he digital modes then there will be chaos.  The FT8 crowd is already QRMing the Hellschreiber crowd.  When the RTTY signals start in Winter season, the FT8 guys will be complaining about QRM on 17m because many RTTY stations run 500 watts to a full KW. and that might be a problem.

 

This whole thing needs to be sorted out before our bands become intolerable.

---

From: "'Ray Clements' r.clements@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

As far as ARRL is concerned, PSK does not exist. Neither do most other digital modes. About the only digital modes included in their band plans are RTTY and Packet and SSTV. Beacon frequencies are also assigned.

Even our beloved 14.040 MHz PSK frequency is included as part of the RTTY sub-band. Thus,I guess those who use PSK at that frequency are infringing on the rights of RTTY users. 

http://www.arrl.org/band-plan

Thus, I guess we have no right to complain about FT8 using the same frequency.

Ray N9RWC

------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:17 PM CDT, 10/09/2017
From: "tom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: <070@...>
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

As someone who does both, the FT8 default frequencies are programmed in WSJT-X application (which is still in the release candidate 2 stage for FT8).   The best chance is to get them to change the frequency they use on when the release version (or RC3) comes out by complaining on the group. 

This isn't the only band/mode that has a conflict, I don't FT8 also runs into Olivia on 20 meters.

If your hoping FT8 goes away, I seriously doubt it anytime soon.  It has absolutely dominated every other digital mode for use since it came out.   Even JT65/JT9 modes are pretty dead now, especially JT9.

73,

Tom KN6Q  

---In 070@..., <rickocr2005@...> wrote :

I know I am late to the party, but trying on 17m now.....

Fr Richard
WB8YXF

On Monday, October 9, 2017, 11:46:24 AM EDT, 'Steve Case' artcase@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

I was there too for the last half hour, CQ'd saw nothing but FT8 sigs. I agree use it or lose it.

Steve

WA7ETE

PNW

#872

 

 

 

---

From: "randy true w4rttrandy@... [070]" <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 8:41 AM
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

 

Nope, just 20 FT8 signals.

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:11 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: RE: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

 

Not seeing you.  Can you see me?

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 11:02 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

I'm also there

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 10:57 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: RE: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

CQing there now.  The FT8 stations moved away from where I’m at.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 10:48 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

I just got into the digi modes a couple years ago, and I settled on PSK31 and have loved it. I did notice that whenever I went up to 17 and called there was seldom anyone around. I have made just a hand full of contacts on 17.

I do work FT8 and have mad many contacts on 17. But I try to keep above .100 because it is "our" freq. I think it was mostly, "hey these guys aren't using it, so lets us use it"

As the old saying says, if you don't use it you will lose it.

 

Randy W4RTT

 

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 9:29 AM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17m PSK31

 

 

Probably not, but "venting" feels good.     I am hesitant to join another group after cleaning out several groups people urged me to join.  There were days I'd wake up and have way too many emails to answer; so, I purged many email accounts that held little interest. Just don't want to start down that road again.

 

I'm hoping that once the FT8 people tire of the mode, they'll just go away.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

---

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

 

Just got on 17 and don't see any traces, other than some kind of interference.  Seems like it moved down from from the other day.  Hearing FT8 further up the band.  CQing on 18097 +1500.

Dick

KC3EF

 

.98/1500

Randy W4RTT

---

From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of Steve P oldjavadrinker@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:49 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] 17M

 

 

Where you at on band . I can try and meet you. I called CQ earlier at 18.098. 

I will drop down there . Sent at 1849z.

Steve

VA3FLF

2301

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2017, at 14:24, randy true w4rttrandy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Calling, but nobody home😠😠

Randy W4RTT

 

Calling, but nobody home😠😠

Randy W4RTT