Date   

Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

F.R. Ashley
 

Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.

On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian Wolf Leverich
 

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

The difference is that FT8 requires 0 operator interaction except for a couple of mouse clicks. Many people were asking for the mode to be totally automated however it was quickly pointed out that that would be illegal.  Smartphones and social media are a catalyst for stupidity.

Mike
WM4B

On Feb 4, 2018 2:39 PM, "Brian (N2MLP)" <n2mlp@...> wrote:

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes

Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say. Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???

Jerry n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity. No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike

WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Agreed Mike.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike

WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....

--

Rick - N7WE

070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Actually, you're correct Brian.   Same thing the spark gap guys said when CW came into wide use  and the same thing the AM guys said when SSB came into being.  There are still some "hold outs" for AM even though it use twice as much spectrum as SSB.  Guess folks get comfortable in whatever mode they use and are resistive to change. 

In the end, Amateur Radio  will change because technology "progresses"  and we have to keep up or fall by the wayside.

Back when "Incentive Licensing" was created (ARRL/FCC), there were a bunch of "old timers" who utilized the bottom 25 kHz. of 20/40/80/160m and they were told to upgrade to Extra or move higher.  Well, they resisted the change and many went silent or lost their licenses.  These were guys who served as military radio operators, civilian (Western Union or shipboard ) operators. What they got from FCC was a kick in the teeth from the FCC after their years of service ... but that's progress, right ?
n9avy


From: Brian (N2MLP) <n2mlp@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes
Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???
Jerry  n9avy

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.
 
Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.
 
Mike
WM4B
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
It will.
 
IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.
 
If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.
 
Mike
WM4B
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
 
.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.
 
The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.
 
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian (N2MLP)
 

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes

Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???

Jerry  n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.

 

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Agreed Mike.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

________________________________________

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

It will.

 

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

 

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

 

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

 

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

 

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....

--

Rick - N7WE

070 - #1602

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???
Jerry  n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity. No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@cox.net>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@gmail.com> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Charles Odom, KI4VMK # 2542
 

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602







Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602







Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@gmail.com> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Charles Odom, KI4VMK # 2542
 

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.

Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’. Not sure about the rest of you, but I’m not moving down for them. My passband is about 300 – 2500 Hz and I typically see signals all over that area.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick - N7WE
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Rick - N7WE
 

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

It’s actually very easy to change. Just poor planning/lack of give-a-crap by the developer.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Hiltz
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:14 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry,

I heard/read somewhere that they put in the psk frequencies by default and that it is hard to change them, but hard is obviously relative.

Pete, WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:10 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
18.100 has been polluted with FT-8 signal since FT-8 became available. PSK31 has been pushed off of 18.100 ever since. FT-8 seems to have ruined some other digital frequencies as well. This was poor planning on the part of those who created the FT-8 software, IMO.
Jerry n9avy
________________________________________
From: Peter Hiltz <pmhiltz@gmail.com>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Don,

The bands seem down tonight but I just put a call out on 18.1 MHz. Just to make sure, the rig is on 18.0985 which with FLDIGI offset at 1.5 KHz, puts the signal right at 18.1. I'll hang here a bit before moving on. QTH is near Baltimore MD.

Pete WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Don_KB9UMT via Groups.Io <dhobson123=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
GE,

I know most the PSK action was mainly on 20m/40m but I also like the WARC bands and try to drum up PSK activity when possible on 30m and always enjoyed 17m PSK (good DX and ragchew OPs on both)......but where did the PSK Ops go on 17m? Since the WSJT-X FT8 hit the bands and on 17m right on 18.100 I don't see many of my EU PSK friends on the band now and wondered if the PSK ops moved down (or up) from 18.100....anyone know?

I still see 18.100 listed on the 070 website so just wondering..... http://www.podxs070.com/ frequently-asked-questions/ psk31-frequencies

Thanks
Don KB9UMT 070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org




--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater





--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Don_KB9UMT
 

Hi Jerry,
Yes, my observation for 17m as well.  Wonder if there are any 070 EU members reading along and what they see in EU..?   I will try tomorrow to use one of the http://websdr.org/ EU SDR receivers to see if most the traffic in EU at 18.100 is now FT8 or if there are still some 17m PSK EU activity on 18.100.  (although most the time my little 2 ele homebrew can see EU 17m activity well).  Thanks for the reply.

Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Peter Hiltz
 

Jerry,

I heard/read somewhere that they put in the psk frequencies by default and that it is hard to change them, but hard is obviously relative.

Pete, WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:10 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
18.100 has been polluted with FT-8 signal since FT-8 became available.  PSK31 has been pushed off of 18.100 ever since.  FT-8 seems to have ruined some other digital frequencies as well. This was poor planning on the part of those who created the FT-8 software, IMO.
Jerry  n9avy


From: Peter Hiltz <pmhiltz@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Don,

The bands seem down tonight but I just put a call out on 18.1 MHz.  Just to make sure, the rig is on 18.0985 which with FLDIGI offset at 1.5 KHz, puts the signal right at 18.1.  I'll hang here a bit before moving on.  QTH is near Baltimore MD.

Pete WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Don_KB9UMT via Groups.Io <dhobson123@...> wrote:
GE,

I know most the PSK action was mainly on 20m/40m but I also like the WARC bands and try to drum up PSK activity when possible on 30m and always enjoyed 17m PSK (good DX and ragchew OPs on both)......but where did the PSK Ops go on 17m?  Since the WSJT-X FT8 hit the bands and on 17m right on 18.100 I don't see many of my EU PSK friends on the band now and wondered if the PSK ops moved down (or up) from 18.100....anyone know?  

I still see 18.100 listed on the 070 website so just wondering..... http://www.podxs070.com/ frequently-asked-questions/ psk31-frequencies

Thanks
Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org



--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater





--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Peter Hiltz
 

Don,

Glad to oblige.  I'm not seeing anything around 18.1.  No JT modes either.  Very interesting.

Pete

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:09 PM, Don_KB9UMT via Groups.Io <dhobson123@...> wrote:
HI Pete WV3S,
Thanks for the reply but everyone thinks 17m is closed since the sun is down so you can't really see what I mean with the FT8 traffic right on 18.100 where the PSK signal use to be.  Anyway I work a lot of JAs on 17m later in the night when the sun is down and others think the band is closed but I guess we just proved 17m is open right now at 03:00z and the sun has been down for hours....thanks for the nice PSK QSO/Chat on 17m.

Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org




--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

18.100 has been polluted with FT-8 signal since FT-8 became available.  PSK31 has been pushed off of 18.100 ever since.  FT-8 seems to have ruined some other digital frequencies as well. This was poor planning on the part of those who created the FT-8 software, IMO.
Jerry  n9avy


From: Peter Hiltz <pmhiltz@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Don,

The bands seem down tonight but I just put a call out on 18.1 MHz.  Just to make sure, the rig is on 18.0985 which with FLDIGI offset at 1.5 KHz, puts the signal right at 18.1.  I'll hang here a bit before moving on.  QTH is near Baltimore MD.

Pete WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Don_KB9UMT via Groups.Io <dhobson123@...> wrote:
GE,

I know most the PSK action was mainly on 20m/40m but I also like the WARC bands and try to drum up PSK activity when possible on 30m and always enjoyed 17m PSK (good DX and ragchew OPs on both)......but where did the PSK Ops go on 17m?  Since the WSJT-X FT8 hit the bands and on 17m right on 18.100 I don't see many of my EU PSK friends on the band now and wondered if the PSK ops moved down (or up) from 18.100....anyone know?  

I still see 18.100 listed on the 070 website so just wondering..... http://www.podxs070.com/ frequently-asked-questions/ psk31-frequencies

Thanks
Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org



--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater



Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Don_KB9UMT
 

HI Pete WV3S,
Thanks for the reply but everyone thinks 17m is closed since the sun is down so you can't really see what I mean with the FT8 traffic right on 18.100 where the PSK signal use to be.  Anyway I work a lot of JAs on 17m later in the night when the sun is down and others think the band is closed but I guess we just proved 17m is open right now at 03:00z and the sun has been down for hours....thanks for the nice PSK QSO/Chat on 17m.

Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Peter Hiltz
 

Don,

The bands seem down tonight but I just put a call out on 18.1 MHz.  Just to make sure, the rig is on 18.0985 which with FLDIGI offset at 1.5 KHz, puts the signal right at 18.1.  I'll hang here a bit before moving on.  QTH is near Baltimore MD.

Pete WV3S

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Don_KB9UMT via Groups.Io <dhobson123@...> wrote:
GE,

I know most the PSK action was mainly on 20m/40m but I also like the WARC bands and try to drum up PSK activity when possible on 30m and always enjoyed 17m PSK (good DX and ragchew OPs on both)......but where did the PSK Ops go on 17m?  Since the WSJT-X FT8 hit the bands and on 17m right on 18.100 I don't see many of my EU PSK friends on the band now and wondered if the PSK ops moved down (or up) from 18.100....anyone know?  

I still see 18.100 listed on the 070 website so just wondering..... http://www.podxs070.com/frequently-asked-questions/psk31-frequencies

Thanks
Don KB9UMT   070#1227
30MDG#0001
www.30MDG.org




--
WV3S
Monitoring 146.52 MHz & the CCARC UHF Repeater

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