Date   

Re: Welcome

Rick - N7WE
 

Welcome Rick!  I see you already have 3 endorsements.  Great start.  I look forward to working you soon....maybe in the Valentine Day Sprint?

Another Rick - N7WE


On 2/7/2018 17:14, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
Worked him about 30 minutes ago!

Welcome, Rick!

Mike
WM4B




--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: Welcome

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

Worked him about 30 minutes ago!

Welcome, Rick!

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim K5SP
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 12:47 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: [070Club] Welcome

Please join me in welcoming our new PODXS070 member(s).

2597 Rick WS8G

Jim, K5SP #483
Membership Director

--
Jim, K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Welcome

Jim K5SP
 

Please join me in welcoming our new PODXS070 member(s). 

2597  Rick  WS8G

Jim, K5SP #483
Membership Director

--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
 

Jerry,
 
Ha Ha Ha Ha.  I've heard the same thing.  "TU Roscoe I remember the other times we talked."  "Good to see you again this week."  Thanks a bunch for making me sit through your 6th contact with this guy.
It's just a good thing that my shack is in the basement.  Need to be more Zen.  Ohmmmmmmmmm.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 
 

On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 06:18 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
 
 
Joe:

When I was first starting in working DX, I would find a rare DX station and call him as were many others. Just when I thought I was getting close and had the pile up whittled down; some station would make the contact and start out with , " Gee, it's great to work you for the 8th time this week ... "  !  You could  hear  "#$%&(*&%!!!!"  coming from my shack.  It was a learning experience and taught me patience.

Over time I became aware of the ins & outs of working DX. At one point I made a list of DX stations and the habits/schedules.  This helped me work a lot of DX over the years.  Being a man with a plan soon had me climbing the DX ladder. As one ham put it years ago, "it's not all beers & skittles".  I used every trick I could think of... when a DX station asked for "YLs Only" , I tossed my call in with a falsetto voice, but he answered  " that's not gonna work !".

The watch word in DXing has always been WFWL ... Work First Worry Later .

jerry



From: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry,
That happens to me on a regular basis.  I wait on the edge of my seat for a chance at a SES waiting for someone to give up their life history and hoping that the QSB monster won't get me. But I usually loose that battle.  I completely understand if it is a normal QSO both Hams are entitled to share as much as they want and I enjoy doing so too.( I didn't get the PODXS Ragchewers Cert for nothing)  I have met a ton of great people that I otherwise would have never known.  But when someone is running a special event or DX then there is usually a line waiting on them and I think that it is just courteous to make and break so others get the contact as well especially given the current solar cycle.
Just my opinion.
Over the last few years, as the bands get more crowded and the prop heads south there have been instances of some horrendous behavior.  There should be a common sense spectrum allocation so that everyone gets a slice of the DX pie.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482


On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 04:41 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

That's because the pile-ups are so large that it's necessary to make a quick contact and move on so as not to cheat someone else out  of their contact.

I been one of the disappointed ones for years because some "motormouth"  wouldn't shut up and then I lost propagation.  Grrrrr !

Jerry  n9avy



From: B C <k9wis@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Cc: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Sort of like the CW dxer's??  '599 TU' is a valid contact for DXCC...
Brian K9WIS

---- Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...> wrote:
> Mike,
> The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
> to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
> collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
> Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
> something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
> I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
> I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
>  
> I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
>  
> Joe
> KA1PPV  #1482
>  
>  
>  On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
>  
>  > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’.  Not sure about the rest
> of you, but I’m not moving down for them.  My passband is about 300 –
> 2500 Hz and I typically see signals  all over that area.
> >
> > Mike
> > WM4B
> >
> > From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> > N7WE
> > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> > To: 070Club@groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
> >
> > Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
> >
> > .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> > self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> > but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> > longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> > on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> > literally wall to wall signals.
> >
> > The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> > allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> > permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> > of the CW/Digital allocation.
> >
> > I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> > lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> > there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> > be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> > not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> > "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> > waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> > choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> > who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> > --
> > Rick - N7WE
> > 070 - #1602
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>








Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Joe:

When I was first starting in working DX, I would find a rare DX station and call him as were many others. Just when I thought I was getting close and had the pile up whittled down; some station would make the contact and start out with , " Gee, it's great to work you for the 8th time this week ... "  !  You could  hear  "#$%&(*&%!!!!"  coming from my shack.  It was a learning experience and taught me patience.

Over time I became aware of the ins & outs of working DX. At one point I made a list of DX stations and the habits/schedules.  This helped me work a lot of DX over the years.  Being a man with a plan soon had me climbing the DX ladder. As one ham put it years ago, "it's not all beers & skittles".  I used every trick I could think of... when a DX station asked for "YLs Only" , I tossed my call in with a falsetto voice, but he answered  " that's not gonna work !".

The watch word in DXing has always been WFWL ... Work First Worry Later .

jerry



From: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry,
That happens to me on a regular basis.  I wait on the edge of my seat for a chance at a SES waiting for someone to give up their life history and hoping that the QSB monster won't get me. But I usually loose that battle.  I completely understand if it is a normal QSO both Hams are entitled to share as much as they want and I enjoy doing so too.( I didn't get the PODXS Ragchewers Cert for nothing)  I have met a ton of great people that I otherwise would have never known.  But when someone is running a special event or DX then there is usually a line waiting on them and I think that it is just courteous to make and break so others get the contact as well especially given the current solar cycle.
Just my opinion.
Over the last few years, as the bands get more crowded and the prop heads south there have been instances of some horrendous behavior.  There should be a common sense spectrum allocation so that everyone gets a slice of the DX pie.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482


On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 04:41 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

That's because the pile-ups are so large that it's necessary to make a quick contact and move on so as not to cheat someone else out  of their contact.

I been one of the disappointed ones for years because some "motormouth"  wouldn't shut up and then I lost propagation.  Grrrrr !

Jerry  n9avy



From: B C <k9wis@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Cc: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Sort of like the CW dxer's??  '599 TU' is a valid contact for DXCC...
Brian K9WIS

---- Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...> wrote:
> Mike,
> The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
> to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
> collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
> Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
> something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
> I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
> I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
>  
> I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
>  
> Joe
> KA1PPV  #1482
>  
>  
>  On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
>  
>  > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’.  Not sure about the rest
> of you, but I’m not moving down for them.  My passband is about 300 –
> 2500 Hz and I typically see signals  all over that area.
> >
> > Mike
> > WM4B
> >
> > From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> > N7WE
> > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> > To: 070Club@groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
> >
> > Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
> >
> > .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> > self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> > but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> > longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> > on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> > literally wall to wall signals.
> >
> > The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> > allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> > permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> > of the CW/Digital allocation.
> >
> > I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> > lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> > there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> > be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> > not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> > "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> > waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> > choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> > who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> > --
> > Rick - N7WE
> > 070 - #1602
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>








Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
 

Jerry,
That happens to me on a regular basis.  I wait on the edge of my seat for a chance at a SES waiting for someone to give up their life history and hoping that the QSB monster won't get me. But I usually loose that battle.  I completely understand if it is a normal QSO both Hams are entitled to share as much as they want and I enjoy doing so too.( I didn't get the PODXS Ragchewers Cert for nothing)  I have met a ton of great people that I otherwise would have never known.  But when someone is running a special event or DX then there is usually a line waiting on them and I think that it is just courteous to make and break so others get the contact as well especially given the current solar cycle.
Just my opinion.
Over the last few years, as the bands get more crowded and the prop heads south there have been instances of some horrendous behavior.  There should be a common sense spectrum allocation so that everyone gets a slice of the DX pie.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482


On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 04:41 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

That's because the pile-ups are so large that it's necessary to make a quick contact and move on so as not to cheat someone else out  of their contact.

I been one of the disappointed ones for years because some "motormouth"  wouldn't shut up and then I lost propagation.  Grrrrr !

Jerry  n9avy



From: B C <k9wis@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Cc: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Sort of like the CW dxer's??  '599 TU' is a valid contact for DXCC...
Brian K9WIS

---- Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...> wrote:
> Mike,
> The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
> to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
> collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
> Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
> something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
> I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
> I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
>  
> I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
>  
> Joe
> KA1PPV  #1482
>  
>  
>  On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
>  
>  > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’.  Not sure about the rest
> of you, but I’m not moving down for them.  My passband is about 300 –
> 2500 Hz and I typically see signals  all over that area.
> >
> > Mike
> > WM4B
> >
> > From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> > N7WE
> > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> > To: 070Club@groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
> >
> > Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
> >
> > .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> > self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> > but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> > longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> > on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> > literally wall to wall signals.
> >
> > The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> > allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> > permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> > of the CW/Digital allocation.
> >
> > I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> > lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> > there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> > be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> > not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> > "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> > waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> > choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> > who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> > --
> > Rick - N7WE
> > 070 - #1602
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>






Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

That's because the pile-ups are so large that it's necessary to make a quick contact and move on so as not to cheat someone else out  of their contact.

I been one of the disappointed ones for years because some "motormouth"  wouldn't shut up and then I lost propagation.  Grrrrr !

Jerry  n9avy



From: B C <k9wis@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Cc: Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Sort of like the CW dxer's??  '599 TU' is a valid contact for DXCC...
Brian K9WIS

---- Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...> wrote:
> Mike,
> The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
> to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
> collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
> Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
> something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
> I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
> I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
>  
> I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
>  
> Joe
> KA1PPV  #1482
>  
>  
>  On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
>  
>  > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’.  Not sure about the rest
> of you, but I’m not moving down for them.  My passband is about 300 –
> 2500 Hz and I typically see signals  all over that area.
> >
> > Mike
> > WM4B
> >
> > From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> > N7WE
> > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> > To: 070Club@groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
> >
> > Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
> >
> > .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> > self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> > but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> > longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> > on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> > literally wall to wall signals.
> >
> > The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> > allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> > permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> > of the CW/Digital allocation.
> >
> > I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> > lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> > there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> > be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> > not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> > "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> > waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> > choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> > who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> > --
> > Rick - N7WE
> > 070 - #1602
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>






Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

B C <k9wis@...>
 

Sort of like the CW dxer's?? '599 TU' is a valid contact for DXCC...
Brian K9WIS

---- Joseph Molon <ljl2002@optimum.net> wrote:

Mike,
The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
 
I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 
 On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’. Not sure about the rest
of you, but I’m not moving down for them. My passband is about 300 –
2500 Hz and I typically see signals all over that area.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
N7WE
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
"on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602






Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

VA7GEM-1470 <boat.anchor@...>
 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 05:06 pm, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Nope, not during a contest.  Just some newbie who wasn't aware of band plan and another time it was 6-lander testing his rig.
 
Jerry n9avy
 



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Doesn't excuse moving into RTTY freqs. Bet it was during a contest.
Mike - W0TMW #2207

 
On 02/04/2018 05:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
Jerry
Does the USA bandplan stipulate no sending RTTY on 14070
Tnx
Barry


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Contesting has been a part of ham radio  for decades and is more about finding out how one's station performs. Working through crowded bands is almost an art form. There are many avid contesters (maybe rabid) out there who also drive manufacturers to build better equipment and accessories.

The same holds true for DXers.  DXpile-ups are not great to be in, but when there are thousands of hams who want to work some far of country (like Bouvet Is.) and there are those who will literally spend a million dollars to get there (they did)  and put their lives in danger just to make that possible; then you have to give those people credit.  They also drive the ham radio market. These are the people who buy the K3's, the FT's, the TS's,and IC's and all those other state of the art radios; if not for DXers & contesters we'd all be using big, clunky old WWII surplus radios.
When the demand for DX happens and a new "country" pops up there is a demand from thousands of hams to work that stations. The DX station is in control if he is a skilled operator, if not chaos descends quickly. That is why you'll hear the DX station calling by areas (US, EU, Asia, SA, etc.) and with US using call districts. A good DX op will also spread the calling stations out over 5 to 20 kHz. ; hence the need for dual receivers in our radios. There are still quite a few ops out there with single receivers which when operating split requires constant switching back and forth and is probably why so many ops end up calling on DX stations xmit frequency.

One good reason for DXing & contesting is that it provides training for many skilled operators. You learn to LISTEN through QRM and QRN and copy exactly you hear. It also makes one patient, at times ops will not sound patient, but they are developing a skill set which can prove valuable in emergency communications.

Through the years, I have heard on occasion in DX pile-ups when a station gets acknowledged by the DX and he responds with "what's your call sign ??"  !   If you listen very carefully, one can hear thousands of hams screaming epithets at him.

Not sure  where these FT-8 operators fit into the scheme of things, but DXers and contesters have a place in ham radio. With the recent shutdowns of many international shortwave outlets around the world, perhaps ham radio could acquire a new band just for FT-8 operators ?

Jerry  n9avy


From: Ray Clements <r.clements@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It is not just FT8 operators who have this mindset of minimal exchanges. Anyone who participates in contests on a regular basis, whether CW, SSB, or RTTY) or even PSK31), use minimal exchanges. Have you ever been frustrated by a newby who sends his station macro in the middle of a PSK contest for every contact made? I know I have.

This is also common with those who chase DX. Have you ever heard anything more than minimal exchanges during a pileup? Sometimes the DX station does not even bother to call CQ; he just responds to those who call him. The DX operator may not even conclude with 73, but move on to the next call.

I am not saying that these are good practices. It is just that there are more hams who are interested in confirming the QSO than there are in communicating with other hams. With poor band conditions, chasing DX is difficult, so folks are now chasing grid squares.

Ray N9RWC




------ Original Message ------
Received: 06:39 AM CST, 02/05/2018
From: "Joseph Molon" <ljl2002@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader


Mike,
The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
 
I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 
 On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’. Not sure about the rest
of you, but I’m not moving down for them. My passband is about 300 –
2500 Hz and I typically see signals all over that area.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> N7WE
> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> To: 070Club@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
>
> Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
>
> .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> literally wall to wall signals.
>
> The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> of the CW/Digital allocation.
>
> I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> --
> Rick - N7WE
> 070 - #1602
>
>
>
>
>








Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Ray Clements
 

It is not just FT8 operators who have this mindset of minimal exchanges. Anyone who participates in contests on a regular basis, whether CW, SSB, or RTTY) or even PSK31), use minimal exchanges. Have you ever been frustrated by a newby who sends his station macro in the middle of a PSK contest for every contact made? I know I have.

This is also common with those who chase DX. Have you ever heard anything more than minimal exchanges during a pileup? Sometimes the DX station does not even bother to call CQ; he just responds to those who call him. The DX operator may not even conclude with 73, but move on to the next call.

I am not saying that these are good practices. It is just that there are more hams who are interested in confirming the QSO than there are in communicating with other hams. With poor band conditions, chasing DX is difficult, so folks are now chasing grid squares.

Ray N9RWC




------ Original Message ------
Received: 06:39 AM CST, 02/05/2018
From: "Joseph Molon" <ljl2002@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader


Mike,
The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants
to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and
collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an
Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but
something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and
I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
 
I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482
 
 
 On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’. Not sure about the rest
of you, but I’m not moving down for them. My passband is about 300 –
2500 Hz and I typically see signals all over that area.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick -
> N7WE
> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
> To: 070Club@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
>
> Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
>
> .....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former
> self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time,
> but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no
> longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist
> on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face
> literally wall to wall signals.
>
> The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An
> allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations
> permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion
> of the CW/Digital allocation.
>
> I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is
> lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If
> there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to
> be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should
> not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be
> "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF
> waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may
> choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check
> who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
> --
> Rick - N7WE
> 070 - #1602
>
>
>
>
>






Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
 

Mike,
That has been my exact sentiment all along.  The addiction to this has caused so many problems.
Don't need social media to validate my self worth.
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482

On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 01:38 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity. No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction. Charles, KI4VMK # 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.
Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK # 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602









Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
 

Here Hear!!!!
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482

On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.
Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK # 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602




Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Joseph Molon <ljl2002@...>
 

Mike,
The only reason that FT8 is wall to wall is that apparently no one wants to do real QSO's anymore.  All they want to do is stuff their logs and collect their awards.  To me that misses the whole point of being an Amateur radio operator.  Not every QSO will end up as a ragchew but something past your call and grid should count as a real QSO.
I've seen the encroachment on 20m (lower end) and 40m (upper end) and I'm not about to give up spectrum to non-QSO's!
 
I'm not moving either!.  Nuff said!
 
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482

On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 wrote:
 
 > So the bottom line is ‘use it or lose it’. Not sure about the rest of you, but I’m not moving down for them. My passband is about 300 – 2500 Hz and I typically see signals all over that area.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick - N7WE
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:35 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602




Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian (N2MLP)
 

Yes but what fun is that

-----Original Message-----
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of B C
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:15 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Cc: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

FT-8 and wsjt is just a couple of lines of code away from being completely automated..remember the days when we sued to joke about..turning on the computer before we went to bed and waking up in the morning to see how much DX we worked..well its that close..I can launch a CQ, walk away, grab a sandwich from the kitchen and come back to see who I snagged, then just click the log button..and repeat.
Brian K9WIS

---- Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@cox.net> wrote:


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

B C <k9wis@...>
 

FT-8 and wsjt is just a couple of lines of code away from being completely automated..remember the days when we sued to joke about..turning on the computer before we went to bed and waking up in the morning to see how much DX we worked..well its that close..I can launch a CQ, walk away, grab a sandwich from the kitchen and come back to see who I snagged, then just click the log button..and repeat.
Brian K9WIS

---- Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@cox.net> wrote:


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Nope, not during a contest.  Just some newbie who wasn't aware of band plan and another time it was 6-lander testing his rig.

Jerry n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Doesn't excuse moving into RTTY freqs. Bet it was during a contest.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 05:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....














Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

F.R. Ashley
 

Yup...  was listening for some JT-9  earlier, heard a PSK31 and Olivia station on  14.079.  Didn't have software running for those modes so don't know if they were just goofing around or calling CQ or what.

73 Buddy WB4M


On 2/4/2018 6:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike - W0TMW #2207
 

Doesn't excuse moving into RTTY freqs. Bet it was during a contest.

Mike - W0TMW #2207

--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 05:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Maybe we all switch to 18.100 RTTY ???

n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

You mean like… yesterday?

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.  If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.  FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.  FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:


Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
  . . .

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....













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