Date   

Re: Losing 30M

Jerry N9AVY
 

Being a “no-coder” has nothing to do with anything !   Am a coded  Extra here.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 6:30 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

Guys FT8 signals out number psk/cw/ssb 10:1 in numbers count. Go to Club Log and look at the FT8 to other ratio. You can yell and scream about an arrogant software developer, but he had to choose something. Since there weren’t a lot of PSK traces on the waterfall the rest is history. My simple observations are that it is the same 6 stations on PSK, I love operating PSK and try to use it, but FT8 is more popular period. You can’t change that. I was first licensed in the 70’s when hams rag chewed and nets were on 75m with all the alligators. Now nets are everywhere and everybody just wants their signal report and a contact on LOTW. You can site the thousands of documents that identify the PSK frequencies, but it doesn’t matter! We took CW frequencies because PSK was more popular, and how many of you are no-code licensees, now FT8 is more popular and we lose. You all know that is how the world works, think about it. We don’t want you here in the United States unless your a Doctor from India. Winners and losers folks, FT8 won. Like the man said, just the facts!

 

 


On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

That’s true bck in the 50’s the AM had a major “war” with SSBers and SSB eventually won out.  It was because of bandwidth… AM takes up twice the spectrum that SSB does.  Today AM signals are few and far between. Was there in late 50’s and saw it happen.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

 

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

 

<25A26BD507F9443A8F78FC79A4496854.png>

 


Re: Losing 30M

John Frederick <jafrederick@...>
 

Guys FT8 signals out number psk/cw/ssb 10:1 in numbers count. Go to Club Log and look at the FT8 to other ratio. You can yell and scream about an arrogant software developer, but he had to choose something. Since there weren’t a lot of PSK traces on the waterfall the rest is history. My simple observations are that it is the same 6 stations on PSK, I love operating PSK and try to use it, but FT8 is more popular period. You can’t change that. I was first licensed in the 70’s when hams rag chewed and nets were on 75m with all the alligators. Now nets are everywhere and everybody just wants their signal report and a contact on LOTW. You can site the thousands of documents that identify the PSK frequencies, but it doesn’t matter! We took CW frequencies because PSK was more popular, and how many of you are no-code licensees, now FT8 is more popular and we lose. You all know that is how the world works, think about it. We don’t want you here in the United States unless your a Doctor from India. Winners and losers folks, FT8 won. Like the man said, just the facts!



On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

That’s true bck in the 50’s the AM had a major “war” with SSBers and SSB eventually won out.  It was because of bandwidth… AM takes up twice the spectrum that SSB does.  Today AM signals are few and far between. Was there in late 50’s and saw it happen.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

 

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

 

<25A26BD507F9443A8F78FC79A4496854.png>


Re: Losing 30M

Jim K5SP
 

I am beginning to think that when God said "Let their be light"; that you were there to throw the switch, Jerry!



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
Date: 8/13/19 5:55 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

That’s true bck in the 50’s the AM had a major “war” with SSBers and SSB eventually won out.  It was because of bandwidth… AM takes up twice the spectrum that SSB does.  Today AM signals are few and far between. Was there in late 50’s and saw it happen.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

 

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groupsio
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

 


--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Re: Losing 30M

Jerry N9AVY
 

That’s true bck in the 50’s the AM had a major “war” with SSBers and SSB eventually won out.  It was because of bandwidth… AM takes up twice the spectrum that SSB does.  Today AM signals are few and far between. Was there in late 50’s and saw it happen.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

 

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

 


Re: Losing 30M

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Well stated Jim — I agree, the solution is not to get over it and move.    The people who decided to arbitrarily pick frequencies for their new modes had no consideration for anyone else at all but themselves or himself and that is pretty rude of him/them.

Dan Morris  KZ3T

I live to live for Him!



On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Jim K5SP <jinnis@...> wrote:

Really? That is your solution: "Get over it and move".  Do you have any idea how many publications, websites, and other sources of information list the frequencies for PSK operation in the bands.  A monumental task to track and change all those documents.  Yet, a simple coding change by the arrogant developer of that software would fix everything.   Get over it and move is not a solution.  

I have communicated with Section Managers and above trying to get some action on the arbitrary assignment of the FT frequencies in already slots used by other modes by "Gentlemen's" Agreement.  

Please reconsider your statement.

Jim K5SP

On 8/13/2019 2:48 PM, John Frederick via Groups.Io wrote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.
These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 
 
This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.
 
Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.
 
Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.
 
So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)
 
So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
 
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M
 
These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty
W5DP
 
<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

-- 
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Re: Losing 30M

Jim K5SP
 

Really? That is your solution: "Get over it and move".  Do you have any idea how many publications, websites, and other sources of information list the frequencies for PSK operation in the bands.  A monumental task to track and change all those documents.  Yet, a simple coding change by the arrogant developer of that software would fix everything.   Get over it and move is not a solution. 

I have communicated with Section Managers and above trying to get some action on the arbitrary assignment of the FT frequencies in already slots used by other modes by "Gentlemen's" Agreement. 

Please reconsider your statement.

Jim K5SP

On 8/13/2019 2:48 PM, John Frederick via Groups.Io wrote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>

--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Re: Losing 30M

Rick - N7WE
 

John-
I'm sorry to hear you have been trying to work PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts.  Did you have a chance to get on during the Firecracker Sprint?  There were 40 logs submitted for that one.  How about the Endorsement Daze last weekend?  There were lots of traces on 20 and 40 and some on 80 as well.  A lot of 070 members had a great time.  The Pontoon Portable APE guys handed out lots of APE Chaser contacts.  Hang in there.  There is lots of PSK still going on - and with the exception of 17m, mostly where we have always operated PSK.
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: Losing 30M

John Frederick <jafrederick@...>
 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.

John, N8GOU


On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 

 

This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.

 

Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.

 

Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.

 

So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)

 

So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.

 

Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.

 

Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.

 

Dusty

W5DP

 

<9283DF7B52A54D6E8EC4450A6DBB2014.png>


Re: Losing 30M

W5DP
 

Chris, roger that! I call CQ on 30 meters everyday, before I finally end up settling on 20 meters, where I know I will find activity. I know that 30 meters is open, as it falls between 20m and 40m. So, it's just a matter of no activity. FT8 can be heard on 10.136 and above, and activity there also indicates an open band.

We just need to get on more!

Thanks for your concern!

Dusty
W5DP


Re: Losing 30M

N9JCA Chris Matthews <n9jca.chris@...>
 

Dusty et All

I have only been Monitoring 30M as this is where I read that FT4 was going to operate.  In the past few days I have noticed 5/6 FT4 signals operating between 10.140 and 10.142.  This is right in the middle of the PSK31 Frequency.

Chris N9JCA PODXS # 797

73


On 8/13/19 1:36 PM, W5DP wrote:
I went back and looked at the current ARRL's band plan chart and they don't differentiate between any of the digital modes, other than to link RTTY with the digital. Only other exception is SSTV which is in the phone bands.

So, it's up to us. Looking at the ham bands charts show the dividing line between data and phone at 18.110. And of course the ARRL code practice is broadcast on 18.0975, inferring that maybe below 18.100 is for CW? Another point, from a practical POV, is that most of our rigs have a 3KHZ bandwith, and the waterfall display is dependent on the receiver's bandwidth, falling off at or near 3,000.

So, maybe, the next slot up from 18.100 is 18.103? I know that 18.097 was suggested, but that falls over the ARRL's Morse code daily broadcasts.

Another point is FT4. Has it found a home yet? There will always be 'new' modes coming at us. So what is a good strategy moving forward?

I don't know. 

You guys are a whole lot smarter than me in figuring this stuff out. 

Dusty
 


Re: Losing 30M

W5DP
 

I went back and looked at the current ARRL's band plan chart and they don't differentiate between any of the digital modes, other than to link RTTY with the digital. Only other exception is SSTV which is in the phone bands.

So, it's up to us. Looking at the ham bands charts show the dividing line between data and phone at 18.110. And of course the ARRL code practice is broadcast on 18.0975, inferring that maybe below 18.100 is for CW? Another point, from a practical POV, is that most of our rigs have a 3KHZ bandwith, and the waterfall display is dependent on the receiver's bandwidth, falling off at or near 3,000.

So, maybe, the next slot up from 18.100 is 18.103? I know that 18.097 was suggested, but that falls over the ARRL's Morse code daily broadcasts.

Another point is FT4. Has it found a home yet? There will always be 'new' modes coming at us. So what is a good strategy moving forward?

I don't know. 

You guys are a whole lot smarter than me in figuring this stuff out. 

Dusty
 


Re: Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

David, K9DWR
 

On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:02, K8TOM <tsingle@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know if focusing the hours window, more like a "new member endorsement sprint" would help focus turnout or not, but I suppose that is something worth getting member comment on. There are, as always pros and cons.
I like the idea of a “new member sprint” to get people active.


David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@graniteweb.com


Re: Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

K8TOM
 

Endorsement daze seems to be a good thing,  perhaps spaced out maybe every three months or so, depending on our club event schedule.

I picked up a few of the newer members for the log and even managed to get the Pontoon Portable from --way out here-- in the PNW hinterlands.

I don't know if focusing the hours window, more like a "new member endorsement sprint" would help focus turnout or not, but I suppose that is something worth getting member comment on.  There are, as always pros and cons.

All in all, it was worthwhile getting folks active during our low solar activity period.

Thanks for encouraging us with the events and emails!

Tom
K8TOM
815


KG5OIB

Jim K5SP
 

Nice chat with John on 20 this morning, good signal from Colorado into North Texas.  Did not last too long, he asked me a question about my antenna, I responded, and never saw him again.


--
Jim,  K5SP #483
Member Services Director


Re: Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

stan W9SMR
 

Good job Dusty!

And thanks for chasing the KC9UR Pontoon Portable APE!

73,
Stan
W9SMR

________________________________________
From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of W5DP <don@dpsol.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 11:10 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

Well, as you know, I am a recent LONP, so this weekend, I increased my totals to 110, which is not a lot, but I will take what ever I can get.

Thanks!

Dusty(W5DP)


Re: Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

W5DP
 

Well, as you know, I am a recent LONP, so this weekend, I increased my totals to 110, which is not a lot, but I will take what ever I can get. 

Thanks!

Dusty(W5DP)


Feedback ?? - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

stan W9SMR
 

From the high number of Endorsement uploads seen since the weekend ended (~ 20) , I am hopeful that some of you were able to add to your Endorsement totals.

I'd love to hear your "brag" list of increases in LONP and progress on WALC-NA. And any other achievements along the way.

I see that Jerry,  N9AVY, is closing in on the elite 1,000 LONP level with 938 Q's. Atta' Boy, Jerry!! 

Who else made great progress this weekend?

We are currently staging the Endorsement Daze events during a month when there are no 070 Contests planned. Please pass along any suggestions and ideas that will help make this event better.

You may respond to through the reflector or directly to me at:  robinstan@...

73,
Stan
W9SMR - 070  #1611
PODXS 070 - PR Director

________________________________________
From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of stan robinson <robinstan@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 10:13 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: [070Club] Reminder - Endorsement Daze #2 - August 9 - 11

Endorsement Daze #2 - LONP and WALC-NA

This new activity is intended to promote more on-air time among members and provide targeted opportunities to achieve specific PODXS Endorsements. This is not a contest.

This 2nd Endorsement Daze activity will target LONP and the added focus on WALC-NA.

LONP - If you are a new member, this is your Golden Opportunity!  You can start accumulating toward that 100 member contacts required for LONP Membership - Currently, only 423 of our 2,698 members are qualified.

If you haven't made LONP Honor Roll (500) – maybe this will put you over the top. Additional info and LONP Rules at LONP Rules

A second objective – WALC-NA Worked All West Coast North America*

With the questionable Propagation conditions these days, we can all use a boost toward the NALC-NA Sticker. In summary, work Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and California on PSK-31.

Our Endorsement Daze #2 event is planned for 2 DAYS:

Starting: 00:00 UTC on Saturday, August 10 (Friday, August 9, 2000 EDT, in NA)
Ending:  23:59 UTC on Sunday, August 11

 Join the fun and enjoy…Call: CQ CQ 070 Daze de (Ur Call)

And be on the lookout for the two APE stations expected to be on the air: KC9UR and K5KHK.

 Upload your entire log promptly to the  Online Endorsement Checker   Your LONP total will be displayed under the 070-LONP tab. Your WALC-NA progress will be shown in the “Completed” or “In Progress” column on your “070 Award Progress” page.

Our members on the West Coast are struggling for contacts, partly because those operators on the East coast and the Mid-West are hitting the sack before conditions are favorable to the West coast. An idea has been offered where operators periodically check the activity they see and post that info to the Reflector. Enter your own call or other’s in PSKReporter to see activity. As you see activity on the waterfall, be sure to “SPOT” those calls to PSKReporter. Pick your operating times and Bands to optimize short, medium and long distance contacts.

It’s OK to QSO with non-members, too. Just show them how much fun the 070 PODXS Club can be and welcome them to join us.

If you have questions concerning this event or concerning the upload process, please let me know:  robinstan@...

Stan
W9SMR - 070  #1611
PODXS 070 - PR Director

* WALC-NA
Work All Left Coast of North America and earn the WALC-NA endorsement! To qualify for the WALC-NA, work Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and California on PSK31, one contact required in each state/province for a total of 5 contacts. 160M thru 6M only.


Re: Losing 30M

Mike Flowers
 

I’m still trying to determine:

 

  1. Who are the ‘Gentlemen’?
  2. What has been agreed upon?
  3. Where are these agreements documented?

 

I do know about this:

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d4b3c60d2d60000a147f885bdee88264&mc=true&node=pt47.5.97&rgn=div5

 

- 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, NCDXC Secretary

 

From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy True
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 17:27
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

There are Gentleman's agreements for about all freqs and modes, you know that. They are notorious for working anywhere they want. Check out 18.1 sometime .wall to wall FT. There's no need for it.

 

Randy W4RTT


From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of David M (AJ4TF) <aj4tf@...>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:20 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

Not to stir anything up, but what is the "offense"?  No one owns a frequency...


Re: Losing 30M

Jerry N9AVY
 

“They are the only representatives we have in Washington…”   is an old argument, but I think it might be time for another ham radio organization to come online or a complete overhaul of ARRL.

 

As for Life Memberships,  that is a liability for ARRL.  Someone had “genius idea” on that and those who bought in when it was $125 for membership will probably live into their 80’s or 90’s thus getting a “free ride”.   ARRL loses money.

 

After working for ARRL Bureau for 16 long years sorting/mailing QSL cards and several years as an Official Observer, I tossed in the towel. 

 

J

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David, K9DWR
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:25 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M

 

* Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> [2019-08-13 09:11]:

>

> are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have

> admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I

> am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and

> received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3

> times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in

 

An interesting flip side of this: I am a Life Member.  You would think I'd get

some special offers as a thank you for supporting.  I'm lucky if I see the

birthday coupon; silence otherwise.

 

Whatever you may think of the ARRL, they are pretty much all we have as a

lobbying body.  They are about the only thing theoretically working for us in

Washington.

 

 

--

David, K9DWR

#1604 LONP #255

david@...

 

 

 


Re: Losing 30M

David, K9DWR
 

* Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> [2019-08-13 09:11]:

are ARRL members. Some life members are even regretting the choice and have
admitted it publicly. Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I
am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and
received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership ! These arrive 2-3
times a month in my email or vi snail mail. My guess is that ARRL is in
An interesting flip side of this: I am a Life Member. You would think I'd get
some special offers as a thank you for supporting. I'm lucky if I see the
birthday coupon; silence otherwise.

Whatever you may think of the ARRL, they are pretty much all we have as a
lobbying body. They are about the only thing theoretically working for us in
Washington.


--
David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@graniteweb.com

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