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Re: Rag chewing
What are you trying to say?? (When I went to school only girls took typing and the few guys who did were "suspect". )
======================== de N2MLP Brian Monroe County PA
========================
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:54 PM To: 070Club Subject: [070Club] Ragchewing
This is what we need more of now. People to abandon their macros and have real conversations...not just rack up a lots of QSOs. I'll be the first to admit that many contacts are done with macros, but if the other station wants to hang around and chat, I will abandon macros and go to keyboard. I don't type well, never did... when I went to school only girls took typing and the few guys who did were "suspect". With advancing years and the type of work I've done for a few decades, my fingers get stiff and I start making typos. However, I do find a lot of interesting people to chat with.
I think more people should ragchew and get to know each other instead of usual macro stuff ... which there is also a place for. I can understand the new guys being uncertain about their skills and with the lousy propagation of late contacts need to be kept short at times, but we need to keep out little slice of PSK spectrum as busy as we can. Jerry n9avy
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Ragchewing
This is what we need more of now. People to abandon their macros and have real conversations...not just rack up a lots of QSOs. I'll be the first to admit that many contacts are done with macros, but if the other station wants to hang around and chat, I will abandon macros and go to keyboard. I don't type well, never did... when I went to school only girls took typing and the few guys who did were "suspect". With advancing years and the type of work I've done for a few decades, my fingers get stiff and I start making typos. However, I do find a lot of interesting people to chat with. I think more people should ragchew and get to know each other instead of usual macro stuff ... which there is also a place for. I can understand the new guys being uncertain about their skills and with the lousy propagation of late contacts need to be kept short at times, but we need to keep out little slice of PSK spectrum as busy as we can. Jerry n9avy
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Re: cartoon
stan W9SMR
I love it.
The local HF club nicknamed me "Pesky". Wonder why.
Stan W9SMR #1611
From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:04 AM To: 070Club Subject: [070Club] cartoon
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Re: Comments from Northern Illinois Amateur Radio FB Page
Bob Adams <wa2aar.pa@...>
I also try FT8 and saw what it was and was in my computer for all of 1 day and then took it out. There is no human interaction excep point and click. it is computer talking to computer what a waste of the band.
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:49 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
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Re: cartoon
Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
Not accurate, but it still expresses my feelings!
Mike WM4B
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cartoon
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Comments from Northern Illinois Amateur Radio FB Page
These are from some well-respected hams in my area. Let's all hope they're right and this will die out at the end of the year and that ARRL doesn't start anything else to screw up bands Jerry n9avy "I was really excited about the ARRL Grid Chase. I thought this would be a great HF Mobile activity since there are some unpopulated grids in West Texas. Then I learned about this automated FT8 nonsense and I quickly lost interest." "To me, that's right up there with remote operation of other stations. No personal skill involved at all. " I've tried FT8 and have even snagged a few new countries, but I lose interest quickly. If I unmute the receiver I can't even tell which is the station I'm working I've tried FT8 and have even snagged a few new countries, but I lose interest quickly. If I unmute the receiver I can't even tell which is the station I'm working"
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Bob Adams <wa2aar.pa@...>
No do not got to the CW part of the band then we at just as bad as the FT8 stations. We have to hold our ground where we are. I think this contest is only one year and will be over the end of Dec. Unless the ARRL does something else with it. I have been having luck on the freq were we work PSK just stay where we are and most of all do not increase the power if we do that we will not be able to use the freq our self. And one other thing dont send the ARRL nothing they will not do any thing. They have there little group of people that they will do anything for but for us little guys they say to hell with you. All they want is our money.
On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:38 PM, JEFF WALSH <jeffwalsh1644@...> wrote:
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Re: True Received Frequency
Thanks Bill! You kick started the memories. My first rig was a TenTec Century 21 - the analog version with the external crystal calibrator.
-- Rick - N7WE 070 - #1602
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Re: True Received Frequency
Bill Garwood
I believe most of the popular sound card software programs have a built in procedure for sound card frequency calibration for your radio and computer. You may want to check this out.
What might be fun sometime
is to have 070 Club members meet on say 20 meters at the same time and all dial up 14.070 +1000 and then we all take turns seeing what we are getting from each other on transmit and receive. Might be something we could get a sticker for. I've been calibrated
by Rolo?
I
installed the TCXO in my TS590SG and adjusted it after several hours with
WWV on 10 MHz. I'm fairly confident that my rig is within a couple of Hertz at 10 MHz and on the the
other WWV HF frequencies. What I do not know is if there
are errors in the radio on different bands or modes. Also,
there could be some errors added by the sound card in digital modes.
When will the next frequency measurement tests be done?
When you get into precision frequency measurement, you are not using the dial frequency on the typical radio but you can use a reference oscillator, an o'scope and other means to measure the frequency. (I think there are some big dollar receivers that can measure frequencies very accurately but they are not available to the public). When I was working in avionics repair, we originally used a 10 MHz rubidium precision oscillator that was fed all over the shop via a distribution amplifier to various items of test equipment such as comms analyzers and "professional" Hewlett Packard, Rohde and Schwarz, Fluke and similar signal generators. This test equipment had a 10 MHz input for an external standard frequency. The rubidium unit required an occasional calibration check and was eventually replaced by a GPS standard that was even more accurate. It depended on the accuracy of the GPS "atomic clock" signal in the sky. If there was any problem with the GPS, there would be an alarm. There was a GPS antenna on top of the building feeding the GPS standard. For a ham radio frequency measurement contest, you could zero beat the W5CM frequency under test with the output of a precision signal generator that is under tight frequency control and use a scope or monitor to get them synced up exactly. If your test equipment is all in good alignment and in proper calibration, then the received frequency is the same as what is shown on the precision signal generator readout down to a very small margin of error. There's some great surplus precision test equipment for sale on line and at hamfests for pennies on the dollar.
Us old-timers will remember the crystal calibrators that you could use on the receiver(s) in your shack to keep your station sort of on frequency. The better receivers came with them installed. There were several add on units. They were good to maybe 2,000 Hz real world accuracy. If you used one properly, it kept you from operating outside the limits of your band / license parameters. The analog dials on most equipment were not but so accurate and some of the older transmit VFOs would drift. Affordable digital frequency counters and better radios put the calibrators on the shelf. (here's a picture from the internet)
Happy Radio!
Bill N4GBK #1688
From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of Steve R via Groups.Io <oldjavadrinker@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:53:18 AM To: 070Club@groups.io Subject: Re: [070Club] True Received Frequency OK guys that helps. I have the TS590SG and I do not have the SO-3 TCXO, which is supposed to be more accurate. I suppose 23 and 57 Hz off is certainly satisfactory, if it were several 100, then I would be concerned. Steve that does answer my question about
the USB, thanks.
I see these guys with results of <.1 hertz, that is some very accurate calibration for sure. Steve 2301
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Re: True Received Frequency
Steve VA3FLF/KM4FLF
OK guys that helps. I have the TS590SG and I do not have the SO-3 TCXO, which is supposed to be more accurate. I suppose 23 and 57 Hz off is certainly satisfactory, if it were several 100, then I would be concerned. Steve that does answer my question about the USB, thanks.
I see these guys with results of <.1 hertz, that is some very accurate calibration for sure. Steve 2301
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Re: True Received Frequency
David M (AJ4TF)
Another way to calibrate your setup is to tune to WWV and see what your setup shows the carrier frequency to be.
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
JEFF WALSH
All things have a habit of working themselves out in the end .... give it time JEFF WALSH W3WMU #1673 BUBBAWOOD WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS STURGIS, MS.
On Monday, April 9, 2018 8:31 PM, Stephen Melachrinos <melachri@...> wrote: And three rights make a left! -----Original Message-----
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> To: 070Club <070Club@groups.io> Sent: Mon, Apr 9, 2018 9:28 pm Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 But two rights make an airplane !
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 No... two wrongs don't make a right. I was raised better than that.
Mike
WM4B
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Which is why we need to invade to CW band to get their attention. I have been saying this for a long time now and it goes unnoticed Justin KC2GIK
> They were sure flying the FT8 flag high and proud when the mode came
> out, but now that it’s becoming a headache they want to wash their
> hands of it. Go figure.
>
> He’s right about the OO program, but it was broke before the FCC
> totally quit enforcement. That’s why I turned in my credentials.
>
> So much for representing the hobby.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> K5SP
> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:51 PM
> To: 070Club@groups.io
> Subject: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8
>
> This is what I received from the NTX section Manage to my message to
> him regarding the FT8 issues:
>
> Jim,
>
> I am not sure what I can do to help. I bet many of these stateside FT8
> operators are newbies and may not even be members of the league.
>
> The OO program is basically dead at this point due to FCC dysfunction.
>
>
> The ARRL has no standing to pressure another company to do anything.
>
>
> The OO program would probably be the best bet. I am CC'ing the NTX OOC
> on this reply.
>
>
> You could also write an article for QRZ--
>
> 1. If the OO program is "Dead", why would the OO program be the best bet?
> 2. Anyone want to write a QRZ article?
> 3. Would agree ARRL has no official standing, but, are they not acting
> like a PAC with the FCC? They can and do lobby for what they think is
> in the best interest of hams (or what will line their pockets).
>
> --
> Jim, K5SP #483
> Member Services Director
>
>
>
>
>
>
Justin Mattes-KC2GIK
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Stephen Melachrinos
And three rights make a left!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> To: 070Club <070Club@groups.io> Sent: Mon, Apr 9, 2018 9:28 pm Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 But two rights make an airplane !
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 No... two wrongs don't make a right. I was raised better than that.
Mike
WM4B
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Which is why we need to invade to CW band to get their attention. I have been saying this for a long time now and it goes unnoticed Justin KC2GIK
> They were sure flying the FT8 flag high and proud when the mode came
> out, but now that it’s becoming a headache they want to wash their
> hands of it. Go figure.
>
> He’s right about the OO program, but it was broke before the FCC
> totally quit enforcement. That’s why I turned in my credentials.
>
> So much for representing the hobby.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> K5SP
> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:51 PM
> To: 070Club@groups.io
> Subject: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8
>
> This is what I received from the NTX section Manage to my message to
> him regarding the FT8 issues:
>
> Jim,
>
> I am not sure what I can do to help. I bet many of these stateside FT8
> operators are newbies and may not even be members of the league.
>
> The OO program is basically dead at this point due to FCC dysfunction.
>
>
> The ARRL has no standing to pressure another company to do anything.
>
>
> The OO program would probably be the best bet. I am CC'ing the NTX OOC
> on this reply.
>
>
> You could also write an article for QRZ--
>
> 1. If the OO program is "Dead", why would the OO program be the best bet?
> 2. Anyone want to write a QRZ article?
> 3. Would agree ARRL has no official standing, but, are they not acting
> like a PAC with the FCC? They can and do lobby for what they think is
> in the best interest of hams (or what will line their pockets).
>
> --
> Jim, K5SP #483
> Member Services Director
>
>
>
>
>
>
Justin Mattes-KC2GIK
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Re: True Received Frequency
Stephen Melachrinos
Steve -
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I'll try to address some of this, but I'm not sure I'll get all of it. So if I miss something, let me know.
1. First, the simple part. As you said, if your radio says 14.070, the waterfall shows a tone at 1000, and you are using USB, then the tone is at an actual frequency of 14.071. If you are on LSB, then the tone is at 14.069. But this assumes that both the radio and the computer are "perfect." (See #2)
2. In reality, neither your radio nor the computer will be perfect, and both contribute to frequency errors.
2a. The radio may not be exactly on the frequency displayed. You could use a calibrated signal source, either external or something like WWV, to find that. Note that the error could vary across the bands.
2b. The computer (waterfall display) could also have an error. I think this is because the waterfall's "frequencies" are actually derived from the sampling rate of the A/D converter in your sound card, and an error in the sampling rate results in an error in the displayed frequencies. Once you have the radio calibrated, you could use something like the FMT tones as a source to adjust the software to account for sampling rate errors.
Does this help?
Steve
W3HF
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve R via Groups.Io <oldjavadrinker@...> To: 070Club <070Club@groups.io> Sent: Mon, Apr 9, 2018 8:59 pm Subject: [070Club] True Received Frequency So I noticed last week that another frequency measuring test was conducted by K5CM and I assume sponsored by ARRL. Not really thinking the process through I measured the frequencies for 40 and 20 Meters using DM780 from HRD. Afterwards I realized that I would have and did make an error. If I am using USB to look at a signal, then I am really inserting an audio / side band error.
So sure enough, I was 23 Hz off on 40M and 57 Hz off on 20M. So I noticed on DM780 you can select the frequency for the waterfall or select Hz from the base frequency. If you select frequency DM780 allows you to enter an offset to adjust the frequency across the waterfall. Here are my questions? Example, My radio is set for 14.070. I see a trace on the waterfall at 1000 Hz. This should translate to 14.071. But if we are using USB is there an error being inserted to the true received frequency? How is that offset or error measured? I would assume that since I am selected 14.070 USB, I am not really on 14.070 am I? Something to change the subject and put on thinking hats...any thoughts? Steve VA3FLF 2301
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
But two rights make an airplane !
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 No... two wrongs don't make a right. I was raised better than that. Mike WM4B -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 Which is why we need to invade to CW band to get their attention. I have been saying this for a long time now and it goes unnoticed Justin KC2GIK > They were sure flying the FT8 flag high and proud when the mode came > out, but now that it’s becoming a headache they want to wash their > hands of it. Go figure. > > He’s right about the OO program, but it was broke before the FCC > totally quit enforcement. That’s why I turned in my credentials. > > So much for representing the hobby. > > Mike > WM4B > > K5SP > Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:51 PM > To: 070Club@groups.io > Subject: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 > > This is what I received from the NTX section Manage to my message to > him regarding the FT8 issues: > > Jim, > > I am not sure what I can do to help. I bet many of these stateside FT8 > operators are newbies and may not even be members of the league. > > The OO program is basically dead at this point due to FCC dysfunction. > > > The ARRL has no standing to pressure another company to do anything. > > > The OO program would probably be the best bet. I am CC'ing the NTX OOC > on this reply. > > > You could also write an article for QRZ-- > > 1. If the OO program is "Dead", why would the OO program be the best bet? > 2. Anyone want to write a QRZ article? > 3. Would agree ARRL has no official standing, but, are they not acting > like a PAC with the FCC? They can and do lobby for what they think is > in the best interest of hams (or what will line their pockets). > > -- > Jim, K5SP #483 > Member Services Director > > > > > > Justin Mattes-KC2GIK
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
No... two wrongs don't make a right. I was raised better than that.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Mike WM4B
-----Original Message-----
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Justin Mattes--KC2GIK Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:16 PM To: 070Club@groups.io Subject: Re: [070Club] Section Manager Response Re: FT8 Which is why we need to invade to CW band to get their attention. I have been saying this for a long time now and it goes unnoticed Justin KC2GIK They were sure flying the FT8 flag high and proud when the mode came Justin Mattes-KC2GIK http://www.justinmattes.com
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Which is why we need to invade to CW band to get their attention. I have
been saying this for a long time now and it goes unnoticed Justin KC2GIK They were sure flying the FT8 flag high and proud when the mode came out, Justin Mattes-KC2GIK http://www.justinmattes.com
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True Received Frequency
Steve VA3FLF/KM4FLF
So I noticed last week that another frequency measuring test was conducted by K5CM and I assume sponsored by ARRL. Not really thinking the process through I measured the frequencies for 40 and 20 Meters using DM780 from HRD. Afterwards I realized that I would have and did make an error. If I am using USB to look at a signal, then I am really inserting an audio / side band error.
So sure enough, I was 23 Hz off on 40M and 57 Hz off on 20M. So I noticed on DM780 you can select the frequency for the waterfall or select Hz from the base frequency. If you select frequency DM780 allows you to enter an offset to adjust the frequency across the waterfall. Here are my questions? Example, My radio is set for 14.070. I see a trace on the waterfall at 1000 Hz. This should translate to 14.071. But if we are using USB is there an error being inserted to the true received frequency? How is that offset or error measured? I would assume that since I am selected 14.070 USB, I am not really on 14.070 am I? Something to change the subject and put on thinking hats...any thoughts? Steve VA3FLF 2301
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Re: Section Manager Response Re: FT8
Bob Adams <wa2aar.pa@...>
The ARRL will back the FT8 stations because of the grid contest and there is nothing we can do. When FT8 was put out should have stated the frequency. If you are not a paid member of the ARRL they just tell you to go to hell they will not help you at all. The ARRL is now just a business and all they want is the dues and money. It is a big joke even trying to to ask them to help. Bob - wa2aar
On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 6:38 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
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