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Re: Hex Beam
Joe: have to be in Salem, MA, too. Jerry
From: Joseph <ljl2002@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [070Club] Hex Beam Jerry, That's a long way off and it's only a rumor. Goblins and a full moon have to be present for it to work properly. If you happen to have a black cat and candy so much the better. Joe KA1PPV #1482
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Joseph <ljl2002@...>
Dilly dilly!!!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Joe KA1PPV #1482
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Matthew King - AK4MK wrote:
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Re: Hex Beam
Joseph <ljl2002@...>
Jerry,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That's a long way off and it's only a rumor. Goblins and a full moon have to be present for it to work properly. If you happen to have a black cat and candy so much the better. Joe KA1PPV #1482
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 04:00 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
This thread parallels the suggestion I made a couple of years ago
about increasing the requirements for LONP. As member #483 (not
quite as long as Steve), it was really tough to get those 100
contacts, but I did (LONP #58). The theory that I was suggesting
was that we should increase the number of contacts required for
LONP due to the vastly increased membership numbers, and that it
was much easier to achieve that endorsement. (Yes, it was kind of
like "if I had to work hard for it so should they"). The requirements should not be changed, they are there to ensure
we get active PSK operators. We currently have over 2600 members,
can you imagine what the bands would be like on a daily basis if
even 20 percent got on the air? Jim K5SP #483
On 3/13/2018 9:39 PM, Matthew King -
AK4MK wrote:
--
Jim, K5SP #483 Member Services Director
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
David M (AJ4TF)
So, I'm kind of like W3HF - not been on the air much nor on the reflector. I've been sort of following the "I hate FT8" threads, and now this one.
1) "I Hate FT8" discussions- FT8 is not going away anytime soon. I doubt that you will see any changes by the ARRL since they themselves promoted it by running an article in QST. Maybe you should try it instead, you might like it. I've followed a few of the FT8 discussion groups, and I very seldom see anything on those groups about wishing the PSKers (or any other mode) would go away. Instead of tearing down others who choose to do other things, why not promote PSK31? BTW, I can assure you that many of the 070 members here are in my log under FT8 mode. So, perhaps we can turn the volume down on the "I Hate FT8" threads. 2) Open up contests- Sure why not? I would never refuse to work someone just because they didn't have an 070 number. Maybe that QSO doesn't count in the score, no big deal. 3) Change membership requirements- No. The stated purpose of the club is for those that "enjoy the PSK31 digital mode". I see no reason to not require evidence of that. One of the requirements is to have a "Commitment to excellent operating practices, a willingness to learn new things, and a desire to have fun with PSK31!" There is no better way to learn excellent operating practices than to get on the air and make some contacts. I didn't pick up whether there was an official "motion" to change something in the club's bylaws (we have bylaws, don't we?) or whether the members who post regularly on this reflector (who represent a SMALL FRACTION of the listed club members) are "voting" on such a change. But if we are, you have my "votes" above on #2, and #3. #1 is just an opinion. David AJ4TF #1479 LONP # 296
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
It’s meant to be a challenge Make it a big challenge 50 dx contacts
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of VA7GEM-1470 via Groups.Io
Brian Think dropping the 50 contact to join is jut helps the lazy
Most people can get 50 contacts in a weekend if you try
(working one contest you get you more than 50 contact In few hours)
======================== de N2MLP Brian Monroe County PA
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
VA7GEM-1470 <boat.anchor@...>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 07:56 pm, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Jerry I also enjoy it when my QSO partner has to tell me the time and freq we are on. Steve and Milt's comments still being absorbed. Yes I remember gathering those 50 contacts and being so proud to get a number. Barry
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
VA7GEM-1470 <boat.anchor@...>
Brian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That may indeed be the case in the high density area of the East Coast. I can assure you that 50 PSK contacts from my area is not an easy accomplishment. Have a look at some of my recent scores for operating events. best regards Barry
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 02:44 pm, Brian (N2MLP) wrote:
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Re: FT8 THis morning
VA7GEM-1470 <boat.anchor@...>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 01:18 pm, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Right up there with TWEETS Barry
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Steve: Thanks for bringing a little wisdom into this discussion. Ater a lot of thought on this today I can agree with you that 50 contacts should be kept. It's an incentive to get on the air. One point was not clear to me and perhaps others. 10-10 requires a minimum of 10 10-10 numbers be cllected and a one year membership of $15. There is a form that is to be filled out, but it is not necessarily a guarantee of a 10-10 number. If every number claimed is accurate in name, state, call and date (checked for SKs). then a number will be issued. I agree that there is a lot of unnecessary numbered handed out in PSK QSOs as well as other superfluous info like member of local or national club which isn't relevant to QSO. In the ARRL Centennial I was in the second go around for W1AW/9 IL and had one where the station sent me his dog's name plus a lot of other stuff which when working "contest style" slows down the operator's rhythm and QSO rate (contacts per hour) ! Good comments from one of the "good old boys of PSK". jerry n9avy
From: Stephen Melachrinos <melachri@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement I haven't said much on the reflector recently, and have been on the air even less. Work has been busy, with lots of travel (none with a radio), and it's been hard to just keep up with emails. But with all the discussion on these topics, I think it's probably time for one of the old-timers to chime in.
1. First of all, I'm generally in favor of opening up contests to non-members. I think this may require some rules changes in some cases. St Patrick's Day would be pretty easy--just skip the member number for the exchange. For TDW, though, it would be more complicated--maybe keep a members-only category and also allow a non-members category, and tell non-members to use member number 0 (zero) in the exchange and just count it as a QSO point.
1a. Note that it's not necessary to refuse a non-member contact during a contest. I find it easier (and faster) to just make the contact, give him/her my exchange, and then exclude it from my score. Takes less time to do that than to explain that "it's member-only so I don't want to waste my time making a QSO that won't count for my score" and then potentially alienate a prospective member.
2. Regarding the 50-QSO requirement for membership, I personally think it should be kept. The original intent of that requirement was to ensure that members were active PSKers. There are lots of clubs that don't require any proof of operation to get a member number, and I see lots of brag files where the other op will list four, five, ten club membership numbers. Aside from some that just aren't relevant (like the 10-10 or 30MDG numbers that are given on a 40m QSO or Feld Hell number on PSK), I wonder whether the other operator really is interested in all these various bands and modes when there are so many, or is he just collecting numbers for a brag file. That's especially true of EPC--just click a web page and you get a number! 070 (like 10-10) requires applicants to demonstrate their interest in the subject of the club by active participation before membership. I think that's relevant and appropriate.
3. Others have pointed out that it may be more difficult today than it was a few years ago. Maybe that's true. But others have pointed out that it's not really that hard--you can easily make 50 contacts during a contest, and you can usually get a few contacts a day and reach the goal within a month or so. I made my 50 contacts mostly during December 2000, back when there were comparatively few PSK stations at all. I had typically 2-4 contacts per day, maybe twice that on a weekend day. But I had 50 contacts by December 16th, and had my submission to the club approved on Christmas eve (during the era of manual review of membership apps). Yes, sunspots were on the upswing then, but I was only using an attic dipole (still my 20m antenna) and a PSK20 (so I was limited to one band--20m--and only three watts out). This isn't meant to be either a "if I can do it then anyone can", or even worse a "since I had to do it, I don't want anyone else to get in cheaply". But I think there's more value placed on the club membership if you have to work a little more to earn it rather than just "click the web site."
4. Some of you may also remember when the club offered a separate endorsement path for working more than 50 different stations. QSO-level stickers were issued in 50-QSO increments up to 300 different callsigns worked. Maybe that was more significant in the early days of PSK31--looks like I got to 300 some time in April of 2001. I'm not suggesting we re-establish that, but just mentioning it because it shows that the club has always had a focus on encouraging active members, not just the quantity of members.
Steve
W3HF
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Matthew King - AK4MK
Quite well stated, Steve. Thanks for chiming in! You've said precisely what I was trying to get across in my prior email. We're definitely after ACTIVE members. It may be a little harder now, but 50 unique contacts should just be scratching the surface for our members! Thanks again for your well-experienced points of view. 73 Matt King AK4MK - 070 #1708 PODXS 070 Club Executive Director
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:34 PM, Stephen Melachrinos <melachri@...> wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
JEFF WALSH
Always good to see others points of view .... keeps the gray matter working JEFF WALSH W3WMU #1673 BUBBAWOOD WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS STURGIS, MS.
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:31 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote: Good point From: Sherri Rapp <srapp7@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement Regarding membership requirement: It took me about a month of concentrated working PSK31 to get my 50 QSOs for membership. That requirement forced me to learn so much more about the various software available to me — and using the macros and free text and reading the waterfall etc etc — that it was very helpful. Chasing those 50 QSOs helped me be much more confident on the air and was exactly what I needed to be a better operator. I say keep the 50. Cheers! Sherri, WB4OSU On Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 9:23 PM Brian (N2MLP) <n2mlp@...> wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Stephen Melachrinos
I haven't said much on the reflector recently, and have been on the air even less. Work has been busy, with lots of travel (none with a radio), and it's been hard to just keep up with emails. But with all the discussion on these topics, I think it's probably time for one of the old-timers to chime in.
1. First of all, I'm generally in favor of opening up contests to non-members. I think this may require some rules changes in some cases. St Patrick's Day would be pretty easy--just skip the member number for the exchange. For TDW, though, it would be more complicated--maybe keep a members-only category and also allow a non-members category, and tell non-members to use member number 0 (zero) in the exchange and just count it as a QSO point.
1a. Note that it's not necessary to refuse a non-member contact during a contest. I find it easier (and faster) to just make the contact, give him/her my exchange, and then exclude it from my score. Takes less time to do that than to explain that "it's member-only so I don't want to waste my time making a QSO that won't count for my score" and then potentially alienate a prospective member.
2. Regarding the 50-QSO requirement for membership, I personally think it should be kept. The original intent of that requirement was to ensure that members were active PSKers. There are lots of clubs that don't require any proof of operation to get a member number, and I see lots of brag files where the other op will list four, five, ten club membership numbers. Aside from some that just aren't relevant (like the 10-10 or 30MDG numbers that are given on a 40m QSO or Feld Hell number on PSK), I wonder whether the other operator really is interested in all these various bands and modes when there are so many, or is he just collecting numbers for a brag file. That's especially true of EPC--just click a web page and you get a number! 070 (like 10-10) requires applicants to demonstrate their interest in the subject of the club by active participation before membership. I think that's relevant and appropriate.
3. Others have pointed out that it may be more difficult today than it was a few years ago. Maybe that's true. But others have pointed out that it's not really that hard--you can easily make 50 contacts during a contest, and you can usually get a few contacts a day and reach the goal within a month or so. I made my 50 contacts mostly during December 2000, back when there were comparatively few PSK stations at all. I had typically 2-4 contacts per day, maybe twice that on a weekend day. But I had 50 contacts by December 16th, and had my submission to the club approved on Christmas eve (during the era of manual review of membership apps). Yes, sunspots were on the upswing then, but I was only using an attic dipole (still my 20m antenna) and a PSK20 (so I was limited to one band--20m--and only three watts out). This isn't meant to be either a "if I can do it then anyone can", or even worse a "since I had to do it, I don't want anyone else to get in cheaply". But I think there's more value placed on the club membership if you have to work a little more to earn it rather than just "click the web site."
4. Some of you may also remember when the club offered a separate endorsement path for working more than 50 different stations. QSO-level stickers were issued in 50-QSO increments up to 300 different callsigns worked. Maybe that was more significant in the early days of PSK31--looks like I got to 300 some time in April of 2001. I'm not suggesting we re-establish that, but just mentioning it because it shows that the club has always had a focus on encouraging active members, not just the quantity of members.
Steve
W3HF
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Paul Milward <nu4c@...>
The 50 contacts requirement for membership was and is best for the Club. It's not that hard, most can complete it in a month or so. Even in the doldrums of the solar cycle. IMHO, when solar conditions improve PSK31 will come roaring back. I agree that club sponsored operating events or contests should be open to all amatuers. But, it's too late on the 14th of March to change the rules for the 17th of March. David needs time to write code changes for Checker. I suggest that rules for ALL remaining events for 2018 remain as is. Then change the rules for 2019 so that all amatuers are welcomed. 73 Paul NU4C Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
-------- Original message -------- From: Matthew King - AK4MK <kk4cps@...> Date: 3/13/18 22:06 (GMT-05:00) To: 070Club@groups.io Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement I'm actually going to agree with Milt (and others) on this one. The 50 member requirement is there to keep the "I just want a membership number" crowd away. We want to have ACTIVE operators. I don't see me budging on the member requirement, though I do think we could open the contests to all takers. It'll take some rearranging in the checker, so this year's St Patrick's Day contest will remain member's only, but we'll get it changed before next year.
Not sure if they'll get changed this year or not - we'll have to work with David and work within his schedule. As we all know, he has precious little time to put towards things these days, so we need to make our changes as small as possible.
We'll make changes as simple as we can to the rules so as not to really change the spirit of the contest. That'll probably be the approach taken on the other member's only contests as well. We're really not having a growth problem. We had tremendous growth for a couple years, and it's leveling off a bit now, which is OK. I blame that solely on FT-8's prevalence within the digital community right now, and that's OK too. As the sunspots came back after a couple more years, we'll start having more and more contacts, so we should see more growth there. I just now saw Sherri's email describing having to "work for" her 50 contacts. That's the EXACT sort of member we're after! As others have said as well, one can just about get 50 contacts with one of our contests (the open ones, that is) if one shows some perseverance. 73 Matt King AK4MK - 070 #1708 PODXS 070 Club Executive Director On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Milton Garb <n6mg@...> wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Good point
From: Sherri Rapp <srapp7@...> To: 070Club@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement Regarding membership requirement: It took me about a month of concentrated working PSK31 to get my 50 QSOs for membership. That requirement forced me to learn so much more about the various software available to me — and using the macros and free text and reading the waterfall etc etc — that it was very helpful. Chasing those 50 QSOs helped me be much more confident on the air and was exactly what I needed to be a better operator. I say keep the 50. Cheers! Sherri, WB4OSU On Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 9:23 PM Brian (N2MLP) <n2mlp@...> wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Matthew King - AK4MK
I'm actually going to agree with Milt (and others) on this one. The 50 member requirement is there to keep the "I just want a membership number" crowd away. We want to have ACTIVE operators. I don't see me budging on the member requirement, though I do think we could open the contests to all takers. It'll take some rearranging in the checker, so this year's St Patrick's Day contest will remain member's only, but we'll get it changed before next year.
Not sure if they'll get changed this year or not - we'll have to work with David and work within his schedule. As we all know, he has precious little time to put towards things these days, so we need to make our changes as small as possible.
We'll make changes as simple as we can to the rules so as not to really change the spirit of the contest. That'll probably be the approach taken on the other member's only contests as well. We're really not having a growth problem. We had tremendous growth for a couple years, and it's leveling off a bit now, which is OK. I blame that solely on FT-8's prevalence within the digital community right now, and that's OK too. As the sunspots came back after a couple more years, we'll start having more and more contacts, so we should see more growth there. I just now saw Sherri's email describing having to "work for" her 50 contacts. That's the EXACT sort of member we're after! As others have said as well, one can just about get 50 contacts with one of our contests (the open ones, that is) if one shows some perseverance. 73 Matt King AK4MK - 070 #1708 PODXS 070 Club Executive Director
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Milton Garb <n6mg@...> wrote:
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Sherri Rapp
Regarding membership requirement: It took me about a month of concentrated working PSK31 to get my 50 QSOs for membership. That requirement forced me to learn so much more about the various software available to me — and using the macros and free text and reading the waterfall etc etc — that it was very helpful. Chasing those 50 QSOs helped me be much more confident on the air and was exactly what I needed to be a better operator. I say keep the 50. Cheers! Sherri, WB4OSU
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 9:23 PM Brian (N2MLP) <n2mlp@...> wrote:
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Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Gent's, Let me weigh in on this. I wasn't aware we had a "growth" problem. I'm 070-650 and back when I joined, it was really slow growth for sure. We actually had a "New Member Jamboree" every time we reached a 100 new member milestone. I, personally don't think that "diluting" our membership by lowering the membership requirements will do anything positive for the club at all. Sun spots have been measured for hundreds of years. They go up, and come down. They're down right now, and will come back. One another note, we have a tremendous knowledge base within our club. When we communicate via our email reflector, can we please remember that it has the potential to be distributed to 2,604 members, (less s/k's and those that have resigned or censured)? Can we put a hold on the silliness and keep our emails on point? I don't think that whining, crying and sniveling has anything to do with the 070 Club. Want a suggestion to help our club grow? To help prospective members learn about us? More operating events! In those operating events, call, "CQ CQ 070 Club Members...any station k" It's always worked in the past. And, that's my opinion. Milt., N6MG 070-650 LONP #76
From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> On Behalf Of JEFF WALSH
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:43 PM To: 070Club@groups.io Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
I agree with Don .... times and conditions change and the club must be able to change with the times .... if the club wants to continue to grow then reducing the number from 50 to 25 contacts as a prerequisite to me seems to the smart thing to do .....
JEFF WALSH W3WMU #1673 BUBBAWOOD WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS STURGIS, MS.
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:20 PM, Donald Bolstad <don@...> wrote:
Yes I am all in favor of opening up the PODXS contests to all, members and non-members alike. Can have different point values to make it more interesting.
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
But the rules don’t stop you from joining, just make you work for it
======================== de N2MLP Brian Monroe County PA
========================
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of JEFF WALSH
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:19 PM To: 070Club@groups.io Subject: Re: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
I myself do not believe that just because I had to do it that all others have to ...... I had to learn Morse code to get HF privileges but with the FCC dropping the code requirement I believe that it has allowed a lot of individuals to become hams who brought to the hobby a wealth of knowledge in regards with the digital side of the hobby who otherwise would have been kept out of the hobby ....
Change can be good or it can be bad ...... but we can't be afraid of change
JEFF WALSH W3WMU #1673 BUBBAWOOD WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS STURGIS, MS.
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...> wrote:
I’m not a fan of this idea. I operate less than an hour a day around 0000z and maybe a bit more on weekends. I make 50 contacts every 2 – 3 weeks – less if there is a contest. Heck, even if I just do my one-contact-per day for the Calendar endorsement, that’s 30 contacts in a month. (Granted, there are a few dupes in there, but not that many.)
IMHO, the thrill of the hunt is part of the fun. That’s why the Clock, Calendar, and WTW endorsements are so much fun. Why cheapen it?
Mike WM4B #348
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald Bolstad Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:20 PM Subject: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
Yes I am all in favor of opening up the PODXS contests to all, members and non-members alike. Can have different point values to make it more interesting.
I would also be in favor of reducing the 50 contact requirement for membership. Seems a bit high in light of the recent activity decline. Anyone reading this who joined the club in the last few months care to comment? How long did it take you to get the 50 contacts in the log?? I'd put the requirement at 25 or even less. Maybe if a non-club member participates in a club contest and logs, say 10 members, that would qualify.
Don K9DEB 070 #2007 LONP #327
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Re: Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement
JEFF WALSH
I myself do not believe that just because I had to do it that all others have to ...... I had to learn Morse code to get HF privileges but with the FCC dropping the code requirement I believe that it has allowed a lot of individuals to become hams who brought to the hobby a wealth of knowledge in regards with the digital side of the hobby who otherwise would have been kept out of the hobby .... Change can be good or it can be bad ...... but we can't be afraid of change JEFF WALSH W3WMU #1673 BUBBAWOOD WORLDWIDE HEADQUARTERS STURGIS, MS.
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:41 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...> wrote: I’m not a fan of this idea. I operate less than an hour a day around 0000z and maybe a bit more on weekends. I make 50 contacts every 2 – 3 weeks – less if there is a contest. Heck, even if I just do my one-contact-per day for the Calendar endorsement, that’s 30 contacts in a month. (Granted, there are a few dupes in there, but not that many.) IMHO, the thrill of the hunt is part of the fun. That’s why the Clock, Calendar, and WTW endorsements are so much fun. Why cheapen it? Mike WM4B #348 Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:20 PM Subject: [070Club] Open Up Contests - Reduce Membership Requirement Yes I am all in favor of opening up the PODXS contests to all, members and non-members alike. Can have different point values to make it more interesting. I would also be in favor of reducing the 50 contact requirement for membership. Seems a bit high in light of the recent activity decline. Anyone reading this who joined the club in the last few months care to comment? How long did it take you to get the 50 contacts in the log?? I'd put the requirement at 25 or even less. Maybe if a non-club member participates in a club contest and logs, say 10 members, that would qualify. Don K9DEB 070 #2007 LONP #327
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