Date   

Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

B C <k9wis@...>
 

FT-8 and wsjt is just a couple of lines of code away from being completely automated..remember the days when we sued to joke about..turning on the computer before we went to bed and waking up in the morning to see how much DX we worked..well its that close..I can launch a CQ, walk away, grab a sandwich from the kitchen and come back to see who I snagged, then just click the log button..and repeat.
Brian K9WIS

---- Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@cox.net> wrote:


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Nope, not during a contest.  Just some newbie who wasn't aware of band plan and another time it was 6-lander testing his rig.

Jerry n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Doesn't excuse moving into RTTY freqs. Bet it was during a contest.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 05:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....














Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

F.R. Ashley
 

Yup...  was listening for some JT-9  earlier, heard a PSK31 and Olivia station on  14.079.  Didn't have software running for those modes so don't know if they were just goofing around or calling CQ or what.

73 Buddy WB4M


On 2/4/2018 6:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:
Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike - W0TMW #2207
 

Doesn't excuse moving into RTTY freqs. Bet it was during a contest.

Mike - W0TMW #2207

--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 05:56 PM, Jerry N9AVY wrote:

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Maybe we all switch to 18.100 RTTY ???

n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

You mean like… yesterday?

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.  If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.  FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.  FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:


Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
  . . .

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....














Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

You mean like… yesterday?

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:56 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@crucis.net>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
-- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea. Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas? Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway. If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area. I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it. FT8 is not going to move up. So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it. FT8 is not
going to move up. So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:


Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

Agreed. We haven’t lost our spot yet; we just need to use it (all of it) so they don’t encroach.

I recommend we try to occupy the entire passband as much as possible; I know a lot of people hang out around 1000Hz +/-; we need to spread out.

As someone mentioned, there is still a lot of interest in PSK31 (the contests prove that), but with band conditions being so poor, people aren’t operating as much. When Sol throws us a bone, things will get more active.

FT8 will fade as soon as the next new shiny toy appears.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike W0TMW
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:31 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
-- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea. Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas? Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway. If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area. I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it. FT8 is not going to move up. So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it. FT8 is not
going to move up. So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:


Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Every so often I hear some LID sending RTTY on 14070.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike W0TMW <mikew@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.
Mike - W0TMW #2207
--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....











Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike - W0TMW #2207
 

No. There's still RTTY there and that makes us just as bad as the FT8'r and others. No need to emulate bad behavior.

Mike - W0TMW #2207

--

"Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rises up and smites thee."
  -- William Kershner
http://crucis-court.com
http://www.crucis.net/1632search
On 02/04/2018 04:18 PM, F.R. Ashley wrote:

Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds.  And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode.  And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half.  (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080.  When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090.  But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do.  Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes.  Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
   . . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....









Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian Wolf Leverich
 

Buddy, good idea.

It has the advantage that we can Just Freakin Do It without requiring support
from the WSJT developers or anyone else.

-----

If we do that, we might want to actually decide to do something like this:
080-083 as 'low power PSK', and 083-085 as 'anything goes' PSK.

Dunno about the high-power idea, but I get *mighty* lonely out here in
Californa knowing that it's gonna be another 3-4 years before I can hear (or
be heard) by much of anyone except during contests when a bazillion of us are
simultaneously looking for good band openings.

Watching the FT-8 guys and their linears, I think maybe I could still be
getting in some good PSK ragchews during the solar minima if I and some other
folks were QRO.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I

On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 05:18:38PM -0500, F.R. Ashley wrote:

Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.


On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

F.R. Ashley
 

Wolf & others,

Let me float this idea.  Since PSK31 killed off RTTY QSO's, why not all
PSK31 move into the old RTTY areas?  Yeah I know about RTTY contests but
they will run over you anyway.   If you still want to QSO in RTTY then
do it in the same area.  I was RTTY enthusiast since 1981 but cannot
remember last RTTY ragchew. No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and
will be going like mad thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they
call it.   FT8 is not going to move up.  So PSK could, into the old RTTY
area. Change name to 080Club or 090Club, hi.

Ideas on this thought?

73 Buddy WB4M

1545


No use beating up FT8, it's here to stay and will be going like mad
thanks to the ARRL Grid Chase or whatever they call it.   FT8 is not
going to move up.  So PSK should, into the old RTTY area. Change name to
080Club or 090Club, hi.

On 2/4/2018 3:27 PM, Brian Wolf Leverich wrote:
Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian Wolf Leverich
 

Grrr.

I have feet in the RTTY, PSK, and FT-8 worlds. And I *really* don't like this
idea of FT-8 gnawing into PSK-Land.

In particular, PSK is in decline because we're approaching the dead bottom of
the solar cycle, the low-noise upper bands aren't usable, and our (perhaps
unfortunate) ethic of running low power means we're mostly below the noise
floor on the bands that are open now.

Three years from now, PSK will be an increasingly vibrant mode. And there
FT-8 would be, with people running a kilowatt and a half. (Yes, they do.)

The place where there is a *lot* of unused spectrum is in RTTY-Land up
above 080. When there's not a contest happening, that's largely unused.

Even when there is a contest, moving FT-8 to 080-090 would have no
material impact on the RTTY contesting because we just sprawl all
over the CW segment anyway on contest weekends.

(Yeah, I know a few digital modes already live in 080-090. But they just
don't have the user population of RTTY, PSK, or FT-8.)

So that's what I'd do. Gnaw off 5 or 10KHz of RTTY-Land just above the old
stomping grounds of the digital modes. Doing that would have almost no
practical impact on how *anyone* operates now or when the sunspot cycle
moves to a different phase.

Cheers, Wolf WA6I


On Sun, Feb 04, 2018 at 09:34:53AM -0800, Rick - N7WE wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
. . .
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly
used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. *If there are PSK-31
signals there then don't!* If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and
start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone
except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless
someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is
activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74
waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless
somebody tries....


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

The difference is that FT8 requires 0 operator interaction except for a couple of mouse clicks. Many people were asking for the mode to be totally automated however it was quickly pointed out that that would be illegal.  Smartphones and social media are a catalyst for stupidity.

Mike
WM4B

On Feb 4, 2018 2:39 PM, "Brian (N2MLP)" <n2mlp@...> wrote:

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes

Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say. Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???

Jerry n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity. No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike

WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Agreed Mike.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike

WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....

--

Rick - N7WE

070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Actually, you're correct Brian.   Same thing the spark gap guys said when CW came into wide use  and the same thing the AM guys said when SSB came into being.  There are still some "hold outs" for AM even though it use twice as much spectrum as SSB.  Guess folks get comfortable in whatever mode they use and are resistive to change. 

In the end, Amateur Radio  will change because technology "progresses"  and we have to keep up or fall by the wayside.

Back when "Incentive Licensing" was created (ARRL/FCC), there were a bunch of "old timers" who utilized the bottom 25 kHz. of 20/40/80/160m and they were told to upgrade to Extra or move higher.  Well, they resisted the change and many went silent or lost their licenses.  These were guys who served as military radio operators, civilian (Western Union or shipboard ) operators. What they got from FCC was a kick in the teeth from the FCC after their years of service ... but that's progress, right ?
n9avy


From: Brian (N2MLP) <n2mlp@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes
Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???
Jerry  n9avy

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.
 
Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.
 
Mike
WM4B
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
It will.
 
IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.
 
If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.
 
Mike
WM4B
 
From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader
 
I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.
 
.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.
 
The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.
 
I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Brian (N2MLP)
 

I guess this is what the CW guy said years ago about digital modes

Smart phone aren’t the problem it’s people with no motivation using them!

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry N9AVY
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:48 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???

Jerry  n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.

 

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Agreed Mike.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

________________________________________

From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

It will.

 

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

 

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK

Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

 

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.

Charles, KI4VMK

# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:

Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

 

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

 

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

 

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....

--

Rick - N7WE

070 - #1602

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Mostly just a lot of peopel with nothing to say.  Are we far from a new mode that will make the operator obsolete ???
Jerry  n9avy


From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity.  No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602












Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

I really think smart phones are to blame for the popularity. No brainpower required; fire and forget.

Honestly, I think smart phones and social media are the bane of our existence.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:18 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry n9avy

________________________________________
From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@cox.net>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@gmail.com> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Charles Odom, KI4VMK # 2542
 

It reminds me of kids with smart phones, texting with someone in the same room with them. They don't want the human interaction.

Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542

On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:
Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602







Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Jerry N9AVY
 

Agreed Mike.

Jerry  n9avy



From: Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction.  If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course,  after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@...> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602







Re: 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348 <mwbesemer@...>
 

It will.

IMHO, FT8 is ham radio for people who don't want to make any effort or have any human interaction. If all you want to do is chase paper, it’s fine, but I’ve tried it and I don’t get it.

If FT8 is your cup of tea, so be it, but I can't wait for it to go away.

Mike
WM4B

From: 070Club@groups.io [mailto:070Club@groups.io] On Behalf Of Charles Odom, KI4VMK
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] 17m PSK 18.100.....moved? #2017doubleheader

I'm hoping FT8 will run its course, after all JT'ers and FT'ers don't like dupes.
Charles, KI4VMK
# 2542
On Feb 4, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Rick - N7WE <n7we1980@gmail.com> wrote:
Just picked this up off the eHam digital forum.

.....Unfortunately for the time being PSK-31 is a shadow of its former self and FT-8 needs more room. That will probably change over time, but right now it's reality. That particular informal agreement no longer serves us, but restricts us. A true gentleman will not insist on his or her right to an empty band segment while others face literally wall to wall signals.

The suggested frequencies are not, as someone stated, allocated. An allocation is supported by the force of regulation. The regulations permit you to use any digital mode your heart desires in any portion of the CW/Digital allocation.

I suggest that if conditions are such that FT8 is full and PSK31 is lightly used, FT8 "grow downward" into what has been PSK land. If there are PSK-31 signals there then don't! If PSK31 ops are willing to be gentlemen and start at the low end and fill in upward that should not inconvenience anyone except the poor FT-8 op who will no longer be "on the waterfall" unless someone tunes lower. Radios that have RF waterfalls will show if there is activity below 74, and others may choose to tune down 500 Hz or so if the 74 waterfall is full to check who is there. OR NOT, we won't know unless somebody tries....
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602

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