Date   

Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Radio <radio@...>
 

Byron,

Distortion anywhere in the signal chain can cause a wide signal.   That means the distortion can occur when strong, clean signal is received by a less then good receiver.

…and a strong signal can be caused by a good antenna and good propagation — not just high power.  Nobody ever said turn down your antenna. ;-)

Another country heard from,
73 de Eric, KG6MZS


On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Bryon nnegrom@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

I'm a little curious on what makes a PSK signal wide.


Re: 80/160m Antenna

 

If you can a inverted l is easy to put up as long as you have the room for the radials and a tree about 60 to 70 foot high

Keith n9vel

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 25, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Have an Alpha-Delta  DX-A  for 160/80/40  which is a dual sloper and mounted to a 40 ft tower.  You need a tower because the tower is part of the antenna.. the only way you could get around the tower is by using a 35-40 metal mast or using possible a down wire from a tree of same height.
 
Generally, on 160m the longer the better.  Short wires/verticals and generally poor performers.  Verticals are usually noisy on 160m and some use beverage antennas for receiver only, but they need a bit of space for 160.
 
There is lots of info on the net if you do a search.
 
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
 



From: "Bryon nnegrom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: [070] 80/160m Antenna

 
I'm looking for a simple, and reasonable antenna for 80/160m.

What are your thoughts? I know some of you have some pretty elaborate setups. I'm looking for something easy. 

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV



Re: 80/160m Antenna

Jerry N9AVY
 

Have an Alpha-Delta  DX-A  for 160/80/40  which is a dual sloper and mounted to a 40 ft tower.  You need a tower because the tower is part of the antenna.. the only way you could get around the tower is by using a 35-40 metal mast or using possible a down wire from a tree of same height.
 
Generally, on 160m the longer the better.  Short wires/verticals and generally poor performers.  Verticals are usually noisy on 160m and some use beverage antennas for receiver only, but they need a bit of space for 160.
 
There is lots of info on the net if you do a search.
 
 
Jerry  n9avy
 
 



From: "Bryon nnegrom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: [070] 80/160m Antenna

 
I'm looking for a simple, and reasonable antenna for 80/160m.

What are your thoughts? I know some of you have some pretty elaborate setups. I'm looking for something easy. 

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV



Re: 80/160m Antenna

mwbesemer@...
 


Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Jerry N9AVY
 

Rick !
 
Well said . Just another waste of bandwidth ...
 
"An IMD report from another station receiving you is worthless.  There are simply too many variables for it to have any utility. "


Jerry n9avy


From: "n7we1980@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

 
Well Bryon, you are running a K3 and that is an entirely different bred of cat!  There are lots of instructions on the internet about using ALC to avoid wide signals, but when it comes to the Elecraft rigs, it is almost all WRONG.  That is because Elecraft products are essentially SDR rigs and use a different approach to power control and ALC.  The correct setting for the K3 and the K3s is "4 bars solid, 5th bar just flickering."

Don - W3FRP  (and a guru of most things Elecraft) has a very good explanation of how to set up the K3 for digital modes at http://www.w3fpr.com/download_files/Digital%20modes.pdf It's printable too!

The K3 has a very clean RF output, and properly set up they can run a full 100w out with no splatter - Not that there would ever be any reason to!  But I have pushed it up to 70w out on 160m with my IMD at -29.  

I use a KK7UQ IMD Meter in the shack.  An IMD report from another station receiving you is worthless.  There are simply too many variables for it to have any utility.  The only useful measure of IMD is at your shack!

Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602



80/160m Antenna

W7RIV
 

I'm looking for a simple, and reasonable antenna for 80/160m.

What are your thoughts? I know some of you have some pretty elaborate setups. I'm looking for something easy. 

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV


Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

mwbesemer@...
 


Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Rick - N7WE
 

Well Bryon, you are running a K3 and that is an entirely different bred of cat!  There are lots of instructions on the internet about using ALC to avoid wide signals, but when it comes to the Elecraft rigs, it is almost all WRONG.  That is because Elecraft products are essentially SDR rigs and use a different approach to power control and ALC.  The correct setting for the K3 and the K3s is "4 bars solid, 5th bar just flickering."

Don - W3FRP  (and a guru of most things Elecraft) has a very good explanation of how to set up the K3 for digital modes at http://www.w3fpr.com/download_files/Digital%20modes.pdf It's printable too!

The K3 has a very clean RF output, and properly set up they can run a full 100w out with no splatter - Not that there would ever be any reason to!  But I have pushed it up to 70w out on 160m with my IMD at -29.  

I use a KK7UQ IMD Meter in the shack.  An IMD report from another station receiving you is worthless.  There are simply too many variables for it to have any utility.  The only useful measure of IMD is at your shack!

Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602


Fw: [NIDXA] The impact of FT8

Jerry N9AVY
 



  Some interesting comments on FT8 and DXCC  ...    might be of interest to some.
 
Jerry  n9avy
The Topband reflector has a new thread on FT8 and the impact, especially on 160M DXing, on activity on other modes and DXCC.  If you’re interested, go to http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/2017-10/threads.html to see the email chains.
 
 
 



Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Jerry N9AVY
 




From: "mwbesemer@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

" We're all done it ."       Not me and if I did I want a lawyer  !
 
Seriously, it's always a good idea to keep an eye on ALC meter.  Have noticed that if I'm operating on the low end of 20m and set power level to40 watts everything is fine, but if I go up to the higher band the ALC meter will start indicating ALC action and the power will climb up to about 80 watts .  Think this might either be SWR related or a fault in radio.  In reverse, going from high to low end of band I will have virtually a qrp signal (about 1-5 watts).
 
Am always ignoring IMD & S/N reports because if we're making contact there should really be no need .  Read somewhere that IMD levels can really only be read when a signal is idling. Most of stations who give out those reports never see my signal at idle.  Tend to ignore  IMD & S/N reports as they don't do anything for me.
 
Taking a screen shot of a stations signal can be a lot of help, provided that the station know how to interpret that data. IMHO, most will look at picture of their overdriven signal and think "Wow, I have a big signal without that there linyear !". 
 
Jerry  N9AVY  #454
 
Bryan,

Overdriving the input (via too much output from the sound card) will cause the signal to widen.  The ALC meter is not (IMHO) a DIRECT indicator of overdrive (or not) but NOT having ALC indication is a pretty good indication that you're ok. 

We all know that stuff will happen sometimes; windows changes soundcard setting all by itself, a knob gets bumped, etc.  We've all done it.  Personally, I try to look at the ALC meter the first time I transmit every day, and when I change bands.  I HOPE that if my signal is bad, someone will tell me.  I'm not going to get offended unless the other guy is being a jerk about it.

I can tell you that I can drive my FT891 to about 60 watts without ALC indication, but I always run 20 watts or less.  With that radio, you can control the HF output power independently, so it's theoretically possible for me to crank that adjustment all the way down (not sure how low it goes.. maybe 10 watts) but overdrive the input and splatter all over the place.

A lot of guys will give you a signal report based on IMD or S/N, but if queried they don't know what those numbers mean.  I pre! fer just to look at the trace on the waterfall and see what it looks like. If you can watch a signal during idle (no data being passed) you should see a nice set of railroad tracks.

If you really want to know about your signal, ask the guy on the other end to describe it to you - or better yet - take a screen cap and email it too you.  Of course, that's best done when your signal is strong on the other guys waterfall. 

Jerry posted a very good hint about how to tell if the signal is really bad or if it's your receiver; I'd almost forgotten about that.

73,

Mike
WM4B

 


On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Bryon nnegrom@... [070] wrote:

   I'm a little curious on what makes a PSK signal wide. Just too much power? Or are there other things? I cannot say that I've never offended...I've never had anyone tell me or message me anything of the sorts. But, I want to make sure I'm playing nice as well. I have a K3 and there is a lot of talk about watching the ALC meter. I've done some tests and no matter how much power I try, 5 watts-75 watts that meter doesn't change. I like to be in the 40watt range, even though I know it really doesn't need it. If I see one I want, I'll try and put it up more to see if it makes a difference. I have a signalink and I think the settings call for 50% volume, other than that, I haven't really made any changes to the setup.

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV



Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Jerry N9AVY
 

Brian:
 
As long as you see no ALC action you should be okay.
 
What makes a PSK31 signal wide can be too much audio from sound card, having processor on, pr just plain old using too darn much power ...  no reason anyone using PSK31 should be using a Kw or even 500 watts !  PSK31  is a low power/weak signal mode. 
 
Although occasionally propagation will have a part  which is why I mentioned earlier about AGC and attenuation (learned that one from an OO in CA a few years back and it saved me from sending out lots of OO Notices).
 
I'm sure others in this group may shed more light on the subject.
 
Jerry n9avy



From: "Bryon nnegrom@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

 
I'm a little curious on what makes a PSK signal wide. Just too much power? Or are there other things? I cannot say that I've never offended...I've never had anyone tell me or message me anything of the sorts. But, I want to make sure I'm playing nice as well. I have a K3 and there is a lot of talk about watching the ALC meter. I've done some tests and no matter how much power I try, 5 watts-75 watts that meter doesn't change. I like to be in the 40watt range, even though I know it really doesn't need it. If I see one I want, I'll try and put it up more to see if it makes a difference. I have a signalink and I think the settings call for 50% volume, other than that, I haven't really made any changes to the setup.

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV



Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

mwbesemer@...
 


Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

W7RIV
 

I'm a little curious on what makes a PSK signal wide. Just too much power? Or are there other things? I cannot say that I've never offended...I've never had anyone tell me or message me anything of the sorts. But, I want to make sure I'm playing nice as well. I have a K3 and there is a lot of talk about watching the ALC meter. I've done some tests and no matter how much power I try, 5 watts-75 watts that meter doesn't change. I like to be in the 40watt range, even though I know it really doesn't need it. If I see one I want, I'll try and put it up more to see if it makes a difference. I have a signalink and I think the settings call for 50% volume, other than that, I haven't really made any changes to the setup.

Thanks,
Bryon, W7RIV


Re: W9SMR - Stan - Completes 366!

John Bower <poppajohnbower@...>
 

Good Job Stan: just keep on keeping on.
Best wishes.
John KE4JB

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:00 PM, n7we1980@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

Stan - W9SMR - completed his 366 on 10/25/2017 shortly after 00:00 UTC.  He is the 23rd person to achieve this milestone.  Congratulations Stan.  Well done! 

 

Stan is also closing in on the last segment of the Work the World endorsement. Please join me in congratulating him on this fine accomplishment and cheering him on to completing WTW!

 

More on the WTW leader board coming soon.

Rick Butz

N7WE - 070 #1602

PODXS 070 Public Relations Director




Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

Jerry N9AVY
 

Many signals I encounter aren't really  wide, but just look that way.
 
A simple test is to turn off AGC  and add about 18 db of attenuation to signal. If it's  still wide, then it's the OP's fault.
 
Jerry  n9avy



From: "'ljl2002@...' joe_molon@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

 
Mike,

Don't shoot your radio.  You need it.
I have stopped measuring the width of some of the PSK signals that I have seen by frequency.
I measure them in relation to the width of the Mississippi River.

There seem to be more every day.  I think that many of these stations run phone and forget about the ALC and power when they switch modes.
Just yesterday I was just getting ready to work a DX station (an IOTA that would have gotten me to 70) and I got bombed.  I waited for the tsunami to
subside but by then the DX either went QRT or the QSB got him. Lost another one.

Eventually I will get there but sometimes I feel like a salmon fighting to get to the stream.  Sometimes it's tough. I imagine salmon get frustrated too.
( all you in the Pacific NW would understand)

73
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482


On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 11:41 PM, "randy true w4rttrandy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
It's not my radio Seniour, you must a a bad radio

Randy W4RTT



From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 8:29 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal
 
 
Ok… I really try to be patient with people, but there seem to be a higher-than-usual number of wide signals on the band lately… especially 40 meters.  Just had my QSO wiped out by a Cuban station that was about 2 KHz wide – SERIOUSLY – 2 blasted KHz! 
This particular station is a frequent offender, but tonight he was extra special.  I’ve QSO’d with him before and told him he was awfully wide, and he’d fix it – to a certain extent – but the next CQ he’d be back to wiping out the waterfall.
Nothing to be done about it, but if I didn’t vent somewhere I might have shot my radio!
73,
Mike
WM4B
#348





Re: W9SMR - Stan - Completes 366!

Jim K5SP
 

Great job Stan, have been looking for you every day, but did not see you on the bands at all.  Did not see much of anyone else either, bands have been horrible here is this vast RF wasteland of North Texas.

Congrats on making it.

Jim, K5SP

On 10/24/2017 8:00 PM, n7we1980@... [070] wrote:
 

Stan - W9SMR - completed his 366 on 10/25/2017 shortly after 00:00 UTC.  He is the 23rd person to achieve this milestone.  Congratulations Stan.  Well done! 

 

Stan is also closing in on the last segment of the Work the World endorsement. Please join me in congratulating him on this fine accomplishment and cheering him on to completing WTW!

 

More on the WTW leader board coming soon.

Rick Butz

N7WE - 070 #1602

PODXS 070 Public Relations Director




Re: W9SMR - Stan - Completes 366!

ljl2002@att.net
 

Stan,
Outstanding!
That represents some serious op time for sure.
I think that there should be a Perserverance Award from PODXS for those few who scale Everest.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482



On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:00 AM, "sid47 sid47@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Great job Stan.

Sid W7JSD 1513

On Oct 24, 2017, at 8:41 PM, Mike Flowers mike.flowers@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 
Congratulations and aloha from Maui!

That’s quite an accomplishment of stamina and perseverance, Stan!

Way to go!!!

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

On Oct 24, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 
Congrats Stan !  
 
Jerry  n9avy


      
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

Check out the 070 Club website at <http://www.podxs070.com/> for the latest information on 070 Club activities.




.






Re: WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal

ljl2002@att.net
 

Mike,

Don't shoot your radio.  You need it.
I have stopped measuring the width of some of the PSK signals that I have seen by frequency.
I measure them in relation to the width of the Mississippi River.

There seem to be more every day.  I think that many of these stations run phone and forget about the ALC and power when they switch modes.
Just yesterday I was just getting ready to work a DX station (an IOTA that would have gotten me to 70) and I got bombed.  I waited for the tsunami to
subside but by then the DX either went QRT or the QSB got him. Lost another one.

Eventually I will get there but sometimes I feel like a salmon fighting to get to the stream.  Sometimes it's tough. I imagine salmon get frustrated too.
( all you in the Pacific NW would understand)

73
Joe
KA1PPV  #1482


On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 11:41 PM, "randy true w4rttrandy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
It's not my radio Seniour, you must a a bad radio

Randy W4RTT



From: 070@... <070@...> on behalf of 'Mike Besemer' mwbesemer@... [070] <070@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 8:29 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: [070] WWWWIIIIDDDDDEEEE Signal
 
 
Ok… I really try to be patient with people, but there seem to be a higher-than-usual number of wide signals on the band lately… especially 40 meters.  Just had my QSO wiped out by a Cuban station that was about 2 KHz wide – SERIOUSLY – 2 blasted KHz! 
This particular station is a frequent offender, but tonight he was extra special.  I’ve QSO’d with him before and told him he was awfully wide, and he’d fix it – to a certain extent – but the next CQ he’d be back to wiping out the waterfall.
Nothing to be done about it, but if I didn’t vent somewhere I might have shot my radio!
73,
Mike
WM4B
#348



Re: W9SMR - Stan - Completes 366!

Sid Downey
 

Great job Stan.

Sid W7JSD 1513

On Oct 24, 2017, at 8:41 PM, Mike Flowers mike.flowers@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Congratulations and aloha from Maui!


That’s quite an accomplishment of stamina and perseverance, Stan!

Way to go!!!

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

On Oct 24, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Congrats Stan !  
 
Jerry  n9avy


      
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

Check out the 070 Club website at <http://www.podxs070.com/> for the latest information on 070 Club activities.




.




Re: W9SMR - Stan - Completes 366!

Mike Flowers
 

Congratulations and aloha from Maui!

That’s quite an accomplishment of stamina and perseverance, Stan!

Way to go!!!

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

On Oct 24, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:

 

Congrats Stan !  
 
Jerry  n9avy


      
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

Check out the 070 Club website at <http://www.podxs070.com/> for the latest information on 070 Club activities.




.



15001 - 15020 of 68028