Date   

Re: Activity in Idaho or Hawaii on PSK

Don Bolstad K9DEB
 

I got my HI PSK31 contacts with KH6BB Battleship Missouri Amateur Radio Club operating from the Battleship Missouri BB63.   Check their web site for possible operating activities and schedule.  http://www.kh6bb.org/

 

 

 

73! Don  K9DEB

  OMISS #7559

  PODXS #2007

  10-10 #53502

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 17:07
To: 070@...
Subject: [070] Activity in Idaho or Hawaii on PSK

 

 

Is there any activity on PSK in either Idaho or Hawaii?  I have 48 states confirmed on PSK, but I have never heard any activity from either of those States.  Has anyone worked anyone there on PSK?


24x7

Robert Johnstone
 

No trace seen at 0500z 0600z 0700zand 0800z. going to bed ad0qo 1396


40M 24/7

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Ok, got the 0400Z so off to bed….

Dan Morris
dbmorris315@gmail.com


40M

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Anyone on 40M for a quick QSO for the 0400Z hour??

Dan Morris KZ3T 070-1065
dbmorris315@gmail.com


Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Jerry N9AVY
 

Had a 4BTV for about 19 years and it played well. Sold it off because I was moving; a freind of mine bought it and used it for several years until base rusted out.  It was a decent antenna.

Still have my original TA-33 which I bought 2nd hand (maybe even 3rd or 4th hand in 1979). There traps were removed and cleaned at least twice over the years. I was surprised to find that there were numerous bugs, spiders and cocoons inside the traps !  Therefore cleaning the traps was a good idea.  The first time the TA-33 was mounted at 82 ft and the second time it was at 40 ft.  The trap cleaning certainly  helped and I saw that as a major drawback to trapped antennas. That is why I moved to a trapless antenna.

So traps and coils are weak points in an antenna system. These may be unavoidable in many case, but antenna maintenance should be a must every few years on trapped antennas as well as coils which can be sprayed with coil dope or similar stuff.

Not a guru...

Jerry n9avy



From: "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Not trying to insult anyone.  Also not believing any one antenna fits every situation.  Also let's call a coil an inductor, when it is paired with a capacitor it can become a filter or trap .  When tapped by whatever means tab roller etc. It can be used to tune the section of the wire past it.  Since you state there is no Cap internal or (external as in the 5btv) or any other tunable feature the inductor must be used to broaden the Q of a too short wire or element past it and would not be a trap nor an adjustable tuning device.  When the low dollar sheild varnish over the inductor fails and the aluminum wire oxidizes to short to itself it becomes no longer functional as an inductor and is victim to moisture.  Glad you are getting good use from yours while it lasts.  Exceeding the Manufacturers wattage limits in an out of resonance system is a completely different topic.   Hope others are gleaning some points to ponder as I doubt Jerry, Ted and I will do more than agree to disagree while respecting different experiences. next topic?
73 Robert AD0QO 1396




From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Just to add ... traps have "insertion loss" and can be a bit of a problem when the weather or if you run high power with a high SWR.   Had a local ham who had a tribander. and ran too much power resulting in flaming traps.

I got away from traps when I moved to "trapless" Force 12 antenna. The vertical I have looks almost trapless, but has coils with doorknob capacitors.

jusy my .02 cents worth ...

Jerry  N9AVY




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
well, Robert, can't let you slide on your comments. Also, I don't think insulting me is helping Martin figure out his problem. First of all, Alpha Delta does not use traps; they use coils, and they work fine. They also work fine as an inv V.
Since I got my General in July of 2009, they work like this: DXCC, WAS, WAS - Digital, WAS -JT65, WAS-PSK31, WAC and 25+ 070 endorsements. And I don't 'exaggerate' or 'Paint' anything.
So, either help Martin or step off.

73, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:44 PM, "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO




From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 

















Re: Any antenna gurus here?

N9JCA Chris Matthews <n9jca.chris@...>
 

On the subject of mountains, i.e. rocks and dirt.  Mountains do not alter or reflect RF.  The water table does as do snow capped mountains.  As will heavy amounts of copper, or iron ore.  Your G5RV may have as much as a 30 degree angle of radiation depending on the  band of choice.  The take off angle of your antenna, especially in the lower bands may be a bigger issue. An old time truth, God loves a resonate antenna. Resonate dipoles hung at 45 degree angles will make for better signals in a direction of choice.

N9JCA Chris
PODXS 797 LONP 165
" I am always doing that which I CANNOT do;
in order that I may LEARN how to do it "
On 10/18/15 1:11 PM, Martin Tuip ajax@... [070] wrote:
 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 


Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Robert Johnstone
 

Not trying to insult anyone.  Also not believing any one antenna fits every situation.  Also let's call a coil an inductor, when it is paired with a capacitor it can become a filter or trap .  When tapped by whatever means tab roller etc. It can be used to tune the section of the wire past it.  Since you state there is no Cap internal or (external as in the 5btv) or any other tunable feature the inductor must be used to broaden the Q of a too short wire or element past it and would not be a trap nor an adjustable tuning device.  When the low dollar sheild varnish over the inductor fails and the aluminum wire oxidizes to short to itself it becomes no longer functional as an inductor and is victim to moisture.  Glad you are getting good use from yours while it lasts.  Exceeding the Manufacturers wattage limits in an out of resonance system is a completely different topic.   Hope others are gleaning some points to ponder as I doubt Jerry, Ted and I will do more than agree to disagree while respecting different experiences. next topic?
73 Robert AD0QO 1396



From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Just to add ... traps have "insertion loss" and can be a bit of a problem when the weather or if you run high power with a high SWR.   Had a local ham who had a tribander. and ran too much power resulting in flaming traps.

I got away from traps when I moved to "trapless" Force 12 antenna. The vertical I have looks almost trapless, but has coils with doorknob capacitors.

jusy my .02 cents worth ...

Jerry  N9AVY




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
well, Robert, can't let you slide on your comments. Also, I don't think insulting me is helping Martin figure out his problem. First of all, Alpha Delta does not use traps; they use coils, and they work fine. They also work fine as an inv V.
Since I got my General in July of 2009, they work like this: DXCC, WAS, WAS - Digital, WAS -JT65, WAS-PSK31, WAC and 25+ 070 endorsements. And I don't 'exaggerate' or 'Paint' anything.
So, either help Martin or step off.

73, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:44 PM, "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO




From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 















Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Jerry N9AVY
 

Just to add ... traps have "insertion loss" and can be a bit of a problem when the weather or if you run high power with a high SWR.   Had a local ham who had a tribander. and ran too much power resulting in flaming traps.

I got away from traps when I moved to "trapless" Force 12 antenna. The vertical I have looks almost trapless, but has coils with doorknob capacitors.

jusy my .02 cents worth ...

Jerry  N9AVY



From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
well, Robert, can't let you slide on your comments. Also, I don't think insulting me is helping Martin figure out his problem. First of all, Alpha Delta does not use traps; they use coils, and they work fine. They also work fine as an inv V.
Since I got my General in July of 2009, they work like this: DXCC, WAS, WAS - Digital, WAS -JT65, WAS-PSK31, WAC and 25+ 070 endorsements. And I don't 'exaggerate' or 'Paint' anything.
So, either help Martin or step off.

73, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:44 PM, "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO




From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 













Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

well, Robert, can't let you slide on your comments. Also, I don't think insulting me is helping Martin figure out his problem. First of all, Alpha Delta does not use traps; they use coils, and they work fine. They also work fine as an inv V.
Since I got my General in July of 2009, they work like this: DXCC, WAS, WAS - Digital, WAS -JT65, WAS-PSK31, WAC and 25+ 070 endorsements. And I don't 'exaggerate' or 'Paint' anything.
So, either help Martin or step off.

73, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:44 PM, "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO


From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 











Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Jerry N9AVY
 

Antennas may different due to location, that's a no-brainer. However they will vary from day to day, hour to hour, etc. depending on propagation to a specific area.
My own antenna will work great into Europe when the band is open, but not all of Europe. Sometimes I hear Eastern Europe well, but I can't hear Western Europe.  So, when I hear station in YO, HA, LZ, etc. I don't hear stations from F, G, PA, ON, etc.  But as the hours change the prop will shift from East to West. 

Measuring antenna performance could be done by measuring field strength rather than SWR.  My late Uncle Carl used to measure field strength and his antennas always seemed to do the job.  It's probably best if you have a remote location several hundred miles away to measure signal strength and have the opportunity to do this over a week's time.  Most of us don't have that luxury; so we have to make due with what we have. We just put up an antenna and hope it works.

I always wonder how manufacturers check antenna performance. It think a lot of them use some type of voodoo because most specs aren't what they seem, but then again it can all change from installation to installation as well the installation practices.

Guess it's all beyond me...

Jerry  N9AVY


From: "Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO




From: "Jerry n9av! y@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 











Re: 24/7

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Thanks Robert

Dan Morris




On Oct 18, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Robert Johnstone shopr3@... [070] <070@...> wrote:


If you look at the interactive greyline maps at those times.  You may start to see a propagation pattern and also Most people in Europe were already awake.   As the earth tips back in winter from the sun, the shape of the greyline changes
so folks way north never see the greyline or may see it constantly {i.e. midnight sun} depending on season.  Just another part of the equation.  Good hunting Robert AD0QO 1395

From: "Dan Morris dbmorris315@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 List Service 070 List Service <070@...> 
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 12:11 AM
Subject: [070] 24/7

 
Well, I got my contacts for the 0400 and 0500Z hours. So, I’m off to bed for the night. Thanks to all and those that tried. I actually worked F1ABE for both hours and also worked a TX station. The Europe is what is
a shocker for me, especially this time of morning so maybe the propagation is going to be nice for us for awhile.

Mike, K6MKF, sorry but did not see your trace at all either. Maybe again sometime.

Dan Morris KZ3T 070-1065
dbmorris315@...






Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Robert Johnstone
 

Needing and liking are two different things. I have worked all the lower states on under 24 watts without radials on a 5btv mounted 4 inches off the grass on a 3 Ft pipe driven into Grey Clay soil that I water occasionally in the summer.  I started adding copper wire radials and lost some of the near field contacts on all but 80M while gaining some increased DX stations.  Having worked Australia and NZ less than 30Watts without radials from KS I disagree with "have to have" and find TED perhaps exaggerating or at least painting with a broad Paint brush.  Finding a properly trimmed resonant antenna exponentially more efficient than any untuned to the location antenna. The recent Alpha Delta products purchased here are not what they once were.  Several have been cut up locally saving the center and ends to make nice dipoles as the traps are not doing as advertised. Their instructions now say you will have to adjust each segment.  His location is a unique situation and may take a unique solution.  Possibly something like the AD away from the Mt from the tree top and a fan dipole sloping at 45deg facing the MT.
My added $.02 AD0QO



From: "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 









Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Robert Johnstone
 

If you Ground mount a vertical such as I have been using for some time you may increase the take off angle by adding ground radials with the number of radials determining the amount of deflection of the near field take off angle.  My suggestion would be to add more radials in the direction of the 200ft obstacle.  This may help your tx in that compass direction; however your Rx is still affected/effected by the virtual hole.  Depending upon a lot of factors you may get some knife edge bending help, but the inside dead zone of your prop map may be longer than in level or down hill directions.  If you are fortunate enough to have a lot of hams nearby one might be willing to let you install/borrow one of theirs to check the prop'gtn.  I have had good luck looking at the prop on www.pskinfo.com to see where stations are receiving my signal.  It shows many more than I hear/see on my waterfall including DX.  At yesterdays JOTA demo one of the operators Matt had great results with an antenna sold locally called a "Grasshopper with a 2Ft square base plate,Balun and telescoping Vertical. Also 16 radials equally spaced lawn stapled to sandy soil.  On 10watts ssb worked Columbia, German republic, TX, Italy, VA.and Brazil.  On 30 ft dipoles we heard but worked less stations.  Pointing out that some antennas work better at some locations.  Finding the right one for you is part of the FUN. 73
Robert AD0QO 1396



From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 



Re: 24/7

Robert Johnstone
 

If you look at the interactive greyline maps at those times.  You may start to see a propagation pattern and also Most people in Europe were already awake.   As the earth tips back in winter from the sun, the shape of the greyline changes
so folks way north never see the greyline or may see it constantly {i.e. midnight sun} depending on season.  Just another part of the equation.  Good hunting Robert AD0QO 1395


From: "Dan Morris dbmorris315@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070 List Service 070 List Service <070@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 12:11 AM
Subject: [070] 24/7

 
Well, I got my contacts for the 0400 and 0500Z hours. So, I’m off to bed for the night. Thanks to all and those that tried. I actually worked F1ABE for both hours and also worked a TX station. The Europe is what is
a shocker for me, especially this time of morning so maybe the propagation is going to be nice for us for awhile.

Mike, K6MKF, sorry but did not see your trace at all either. Maybe again sometime.

Dan Morris KZ3T 070-1065
dbmorris315@...




Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Jerry N9AVY
 

The DX-EE  is a much better antenna than a G5RV.  I think the DX-EE can be installed in an inverted V configuration which will give somewhat of a vertical radiation pattern .  Ted is absolutely correct about verticals needing radials; the more the merrier. Unless , of course, you're sitting atop a pile of iron ore.

I have an Alpha-Delta DX-A  which is a dual sloper for 160/80/40m and requires a metallic center support (tower)  which is part of the antenna.  This probably wouldn;t work for you unless you can put up a 35 ft. self-supporting metal mast. Guess you might not get that one past YL.

Sound like you are pretty much limited to wire antennas. You can try a vertical, as I stated earlier, and see how well it performs or not.  Guess what I'm saying is you need to experiment.   (Or you can hypnotize YL to believe lots of aluminum up in air is a thing of beauty !  ha-ha !)

jerry  n9avy




From: "Ted pegduck56@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "070@..." <070@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 







Re: 10m in great shape lots of traces

Brian (N2MLP)
 

See propnet beacons from west coast

Lots of SA stations

 

========================

         de N2MLP Brian

       Monroe County PA

 

 

========================

 

 


Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

Hi Martin, I have up now, 2 identical Alpha Delta DX-EE as inverted V's. (1 roughly E-W and the other roughly N-S) I can get a match of about 1.5 max on bands 10-80 (incl WARC bands) (80 is admittedly not great, but installed  30 meter end fed wire that handles 80-160m). All these wires are low profile and wife and neighbors are happy. I believe that unless you have an extensive radial field (which takes a lot of room, too) a vertical is just radiating poorly in all directions. The verticals that claim you don't need radials are at best, misleading, if not lying. The problem with the GR5V is that it is a design for 20m. All other bands are simply a compromise with that antenna.
good luck with the project !!

3, Ted
K7TRK



On Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:27 AM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy


From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 





Re: Any antenna gurus here?

Jerry N9AVY
 

Try vertical and see how it plays.  If it doesn't get over the mountain then back to drawing board.. .  or run 2000 ft of coax up the mountain !

Jerry n9avy



From: "Martin Tuip ajax@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [070] Any antenna gurus here?

 
I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 



Any antenna gurus here?

Martin Tuip
 

I hope I maybe can pick some brains in this group. At the moment I have a G5RV up in the trees on my property with the ends in about a 30 degree angle from each other due to the fact one end strung from the top of a tree on the bottom of a hill and the other from a tree on the top. Height is probably 60ft. I am really close to a mountain less than a mile away with nearly a vertical 2000ft risen (see my qrz page) and the back of my property has a steep hillside. The YL does not want towers so I am limited there. 

I am thinking to get a vertical antenna for a different radiation pattern but I think the low take off angle might not clear the hill and mountain. What are my options here?  

Build dedicated vertical arrays on the  hillside? 
Regular vertical ground mounted?
String vertical dipole from a tree?
Use a yagi on an angle to clear the mountain?
Anything else?



Martin 
KG7HAX 


Corrected Member News

James Ferris <ferris1727@...>
 

#1223   KD8LAV is now N8PIB as of 10-14-2015
             All other info remains the same.

The above is the corrected call (not N8PID)  - Thanks Rick
 
#1142   AJ4GL is now  WR4PS as of 10-15-2015
             All other info remains the same.


73, Jim W5FER
Membership Director.