Date   

Re: On Contests

Joseph Miller <kj8o.ham@...>
 

FWIW, I like it... The Feld Hell Club (hellschreiber operating mode) has an award where you get point​s for the Grid Locator Number. The "00's" are scored as 100 points. If one digital club uses it, why can't another?

73 de Joe KJ8O PODXS 1244, FH 2912



On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Jerry n9avy@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

Here another suggestion that everyone will hate:

How about one where the grid number is the number of points you receive for each contact ?   I'm in EN52   and you should get 52 points for working me.  Use s/p/c's as multipliers as everyone ends up with a pile of points !

Jerry  N9AVY




--
It's important to think. It's what separates us from lentils.    Jack Lucas


On Contests

Jerry N9AVY
 

Here another suggestion that everyone will hate:

How about one where the grid number is the number of points you receive for each contact ?   I'm in EN52   and you should get 52 points for working me.  Use s/p/c's as multipliers as everyone ends up with a pile of points !

Jerry  N9AVY


Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

David Westbrook
 


A lot of good comments and topics (this definitely starts to spread into a lot of different topics/issues)...

I think one of the high-level questions is should this even be more like a contest (exchange, scoring, etc) or more like an endorsement (like LONP where just which call worked matters, not specifically exchanged info;  WARC ok; more competing against self).

Some various direct replies:

[Barry] "Someone suggested a month later that the checker apply bonus points to anyone that worked a station that 

becomes a member. This would take the onus off us to record all that already known data and put the work onto David 

as to how to do the bonus scoring."

That was me :)


[Jerry] "I think giving non-members  2 pts  would not encourage them to join."

I think the suggestion was to give 070 members 2 pts for contacting a non-member station, under the assumption the 

070 member would advertise to the non-member.

Brings up the question of whether or not non-members can submit for this. (against, "contest" vs "endorsement" style)


[Ted] "to illustrate how some of the 070 events are inconsistent, out of 9. Why? this is inconsistent."

The reason is easy -- they kinda of grew independently over time as the club grew, and i think they probably started 

off more as events than "contests".
The hard question, and what Matt's mentioned under the "Contest 2.0" is what to change, and how to balance the 

tradition/history/status-quo with change/improvements.  As-is isn't bad at all, but of course we want to improve 

where possible, too. This is in part why contest changes have been slow in the last year during my tenure. And we're stretching it out a little longer, with any potential major changes being in 2016 calendar year. The big 2014 change was the official move of all contest submissions to the scoring utility.  So far in 2015 we've experimented with an alternative to the rolling start, and probably a couple other small tweaks (one upcoming in PSK flavors).


[Barry] "I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST"."

Yep, that's the big question!


[Ted] "One of the problems with this Club is that when there is some new thought put forward, the 'old hands' come 

out and start throwing cold water on the new suggestions. I say bunk on that ! Despite that practice, the Club has 

leaped ahead with tons of improvements and new ideas."

Thanks! :)   We've tried to strike that balance...


[John] "I get tired of everything being a “contest.” "

Good input -- and maybe one of the contests should morph into more an event ... or the yearly membership drive idea ...   Jerry's point about Field Day  is also right on point.   Even if all the 070 events are contest, there are many reason to participate in a full-fledged contest (070 events, ARRL, CQ, etc) --  nice density of stations to work, great DXCC/State/GridPFX/CQZ/etc opportunities (and LONP for 070 contest), testing out of equipment, etc.


73!
--david
KJ4IZW


On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 7:17 AM, 'John Etling' john@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

“Sorry to stir the pot by letting the mind indulge in daydreams. I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST".

have a good evening

Barry”

 

SECONDED!!!

 

I get tired of everything being a “contest.” I purposefully and normally avoid the bands where contesting is going on and rarely participate in them either. Most PODXS070 contests clearly state, for the most part, no more than 50 watts. Ever see a station from, say, MAINE on a band where contacts are a little tough due to conditions then this BIG gun walks in and completely blows the waterfall away. (Using this as a reference only as do not even know any 070 ops in ME so please do not be offended) . Now your gonna convince me he ain’t running full radio power or more? This after seeing sigs from say NY, CT, VT and most of them are coming in about equal strength.

 

PROVE the ME station is NOT overpowering the rules as it were. Of course lids like that will dominate the band every time leaving me  no choice but to leave, he owns it and knows full well he owns it.

 

OK enough soapboxing… I have been reading the bantering back and forth and I see a plethora of excellent points.

 

My final take… allow the “meeting” to begin, welcome all, converse with all. Have a secret handshake amongst members – I know Jerry was joking but why not do something unique and give out 070 numbers backwards? Those with 070 numbers where it makes no difference (ex 313, 323, 333, etc. then so be it). I side more with the “old philosophy” of follow the rules to the letter however I do not necessarily disagree fully with the new ideas either.  Come to a middle ground, follow those rules, and have fun.

 

Why must a “membership” drive goal attainment meet with awards and all that. Bew proud you did your part in building the club. THAT alone should be award enough.

 

73 de K3JAE

John

 




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Re: WELCOME ABOARD #2015

Matthew King <mrk.twg@...>
 

That makes it official, gang!  The "2015 in 2015 celebration event" will kick off in just a couple weeks. 

The rules are are under active construction, taking all the recent feedback into account, and will be released (along with a date/time) in just a couple days.

It's a grand time here at PODXS 070!

73

 

Matt King

KK4CPS

070 #1708 LONP #261

PODXS 070 Club Director



On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 12:43 PM, James Ferris ferris1727@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

PODXS 070 member application 2015 was submitted on 3/25/2015 @ 11:09:01 EDT.  P'ease join me in welcoming member 2015 in 2015.

2015  AC0ZF  Ralph  

73, Jim   W5FER



Re: WELCOME ABOARD #2015

John Bower <poppajohnbower@...>
 

Welcome Ralph.
A number to remember and celebrate the 2015th member in the year 2015 AD.
Congratulations & looking forward to meeting you on the waterfall.
John KE4JB

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 12:43 PM, James Ferris ferris1727@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 

PODXS 070 member application 2015 was submitted on 3/25/2015 @ 11:09:01 EDT.  P'ease join me in welcoming member 2015 in 2015.

2015  AC0ZF  Ralph  

73, Jim   W5FER



Re: DX Stuff

boat.anchor@...
 

Have heard back from Craig and he advises:

"when doing digital I'll be only using PSK31 and listening up 0.5 kHz and never simplex. There may also be a change for North America in the 0000-0200 UTC where I'll visit 15m PSK31 as this is a period where QSO rates are typically slower."

This can be great news for us as Craig's antennas are all verticals which gives us a good shot. He is in my log a number of times using them.
His schedule can be found at:
GL es enjoy
Barry


---In 070@..., <n9avy@...> wrote :


VK - Craig, VK5CE will be active as VK5CE/p from St Peter Island
(OC-220) from 29 March to 1 April. This IOTA group was activated
only twice, back in 1997 (VK5ISL) and 2005 (VI5PN). Craig plans to
be QRV 18 hours a day on 80, 20, 17, 15 and 10 metres SSB, with
main activity on 20 and 15m; he might also "do a little 30m
digital"
around 16-17 UTC. This will be a one-man "tent and
generator" operation, running 400 watts into verticals on the
beach at the high tide mark. QSL via home call, direct or bureau;
the direct link to Club Log's OQRS, as well as detailed oper

de  425 DX News  -  n9avy

 
 


WELCOME ABOARD #2015

James Ferris <ferris1727@...>
 

PODXS 070 member application 2015 was submitted on 3/25/2015 @ 11:09:01 EDT.  P'ease join me in welcoming member 2015 in 2015.

2015  AC0ZF  Ralph  

73, Jim   W5FER


Re: Ramblings

John Etling
 

I understand your comments, but want to make something a bit clearer – my choice of using Maine for the overbearing signal was purely a “grab a state name form thin air” comment and in no way reflecting on any Maine operators. As I previously mentioned, I know no 070 members in Maine.

 

My other comment of running the 070 numbers backwards was also in jest knowing your number is the same regardless of forwards or backwards, defer to my comment about 313, 323, etc.

 

I am not against contesting. I just prefer to play on a level playing field but idiot ops refuse to allow us to do it and, in my opinion, should it be a member of a club I am a member of, not just 070, then it places me and other operators who are operating within the parameters outlined, at a serious disadvantage. Yet they still get the credit for the extra stations they work and the bullying off others from the frequency, giving them an unfair advantage.

 

Case in point…. I’m calling CQ. A Cuban station returns my request blowing away the waterfall. Began to work me with a +12 – note NOT -12, sending me a PM using JT-65’s message platform, s/he stating needed TN badly for WAS. He then finals with /QRP 5w. BULL$#!^. I will not upload that contact to give him credit for a QRP, actually deleted it, when I KNOW there ain’t no way he was at 5w or less and completely blowing my waterfall away literally and giving a sig of “+” anything. I almost never see a “+” signal, and usually those are stations close to me. If they are more than a few hundred miles from me one should never be above “-1” sig report.

 

73 de K3JAE

John

 

From: Jerry n9avy@... [070] [mailto:070@...]
Sent: 25 March, 2015 08:40
To: 070@...
Subject: [070] Ramblings

 

 

John... Yes I was joking about my 070 number  because it's the same backwards or forwards, hi !  

 

As for the ME station, don't think I've heard him.  There are many wide signals on the air. Most of them are on 20m and my guess is that most are "newbies" and/or don't know how to set up their station properly for PSK.  Then there are those who suffer from "Tim the Toolman Taylor Syndrome"  where they think more power is ; better.  Of course, they become the elephant in the room , so to speak , and annoy their fellow operators.  Some of these are teachable and other aren't worth wasting our time.

 

Heard a station in AR about a year ago. His signal was wide, very wide.  It was second time I had heard him with wide signal.  First time, I sent him an OO report which he obviously ignored.  A couple months later, there he was with the same lousy wide signal (made 20m unusable) and he was chatting with another station who had a good signal.  This time I sent another OO report , but enclosed screen shots of both signals. A few weeks later I got called out by HQ and told to stop bothering him. Have heard him several times since with his wide signal. Just not worth wasting my time with him.

 

Also have a local ham who say he can run 1500 watts on PSK without bothering anyone. That's an argument I'll never win !  When I start hearing really wide signals on a band , I just change bands or go do something else. 

....

 

 

As for the contest suggestions here...  I base my thoughts on what I've seen in other contests over the years and not just PSK contests.  There are a few contest afficionados in our group who understand why we have on the air exchanges. There have been some rumors that certain contests compare logs against each other to check for "irregularities".... don't know if that is true, but in some contests it might be a good idea.  There was a station the other day who claimed he worked North Korea and it was none of the known stations to have operated from there.  I guess he heard something that sounded like it ws there, but he misread the call sign. I know that sometimes I see PSK signals that are spotty with QSB and they decode wrong, but if I stick with it I soon find out that the call sign is not what it seemed to be.  Copying a call sign and other information correctly is as important as making the contact.  Hence, the need for the "exchange". 

 

Field Day has been called everything from a contest to an emergency exercise. For me it has always just been 'fun"; a chance to hang out with other hams and enjoy the hobby. One ARRL Official once said, "They give points; so it must be a contest !".  Not necessarily so.

 

After 38 years in the hobby, I am by no means an "expert".  I try to learn something new whenever I can. Different viewpoints are always good to read and can sometimes change my thinking.  This forum is a good place to share ideas and teach old dogs new tricks.

 

We all have different reasons for being in this hobby and different goals in operating PSK.   PODXS 070 unites us in those reasons and the "contests" (10-10 calls their contests , "QSO Parties)  keep us active and hopefully having fun.

 

 

 

Jerry  N9AVY

 

(Probably could write more, but I need to get my butt off to work!)

 


From: "'John Etling' john@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?

 

 

“Sorry to stir the pot by letting the mind indulge in daydreams. I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST".

have a good evening

Barry”

 

SECONDED!!!

 

I get tired of everything being a “contest.” I purposefully and normally avoid the bands where contesting is going on and rarely participate in them either. Most PODXS070 contests clearly state, for the most part, no more than 50 watts. Ever see a station from, say, MAINE on a band where contacts are a little tough due to conditions then this BIG gun walks in and completely blows the waterfall away. (Using this as a reference only as do not even know any 070 ops in ME so please do not be offended) . Now your gonna convince me he ain’t running full radio power or more? This after seeing sigs from say NY, CT, VT and most of them are coming in about equal strength.

 

PROVE the ME station is NOT overpowering the rules as it were. Of course lids like that will dominate the band every time leaving me  no choice but to leave, he owns it and knows full well he owns it.

 

OK enough soapboxing… I have been reading the bantering back and forth and I see a plethora of excellent points.

 

My final take… allow the “meeting” to begin, welcome all, converse with all. Have a secret handshake amongst members – I know Jerry was joking but why not do something unique and give out 070 numbers backwards? Those with 070 numbers where it makes no difference (ex 313, 323, 333, etc. then so be it). I side more with the “old philosophy” of follow the rules to the letter however I do not necessarily disagree fully with the new ideas either.  Come to a middle ground, follow those rules, and have fun.

 

Why must a “membership” drive goal attainment meet with awards and all that. Bew proud you did your part in building the club. THAT alone should be award enough.

 

73 de K3JAE

John

 

 


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Ramblings

Jerry N9AVY
 

John... Yes I was joking about my 070 number  because it's the same backwards or forwards, hi !  

As for the ME station, don't think I've heard him.  There are many wide signals on the air. Most of them are on 20m and my guess is that most are "newbies" and/or don't know how to set up their station properly for PSK.  Then there are those who suffer from "Tim the Toolman Taylor Syndrome"  where they think more power is ; better.  Of course, they become the elephant in the room , so to speak , and annoy their fellow operators.  Some of these are teachable and other aren't worth wasting our time.

Heard a station in AR about a year ago. His signal was wide, very wide.  It was second time I had heard him with wide signal.  First time, I sent him an OO report which he obviously ignored.  A couple months later, there he was with the same lousy wide signal (made 20m unusable) and he was chatting with another station who had a good signal.  This time I sent another OO report , but enclosed screen shots of both signals. A few weeks later I got called out by HQ and told to stop bothering him. Have heard him several times since with his wide signal. Just not worth wasting my time with him.

Also have a local ham who say he can run 1500 watts on PSK without bothering anyone. That's an argument I'll never win !  When I start hearing really wide signals on a band , I just change bands or go do something else. 
....


As for the contest suggestions here...  I base my thoughts on what I've seen in other contests over the years and not just PSK contests.  There are a few contest afficionados in our group who understand why we have on the air exchanges. There have been some rumors that certain contests compare logs against each other to check for "irregularities".... don't know if that is true, but in some contests it might be a good idea.  There was a station the other day who claimed he worked North Korea and it was none of the known stations to have operated from there.  I guess he heard something that sounded like it ws there, but he misread the call sign. I know that sometimes I see PSK signals that are spotty with QSB and they decode wrong, but if I stick with it I soon find out that the call sign is not what it seemed to be.  Copying a call sign and other information correctly is as important as making the contact.  Hence, the need for the "exchange". 

Field Day has been called everything from a contest to an emergency exercise. For me it has always just been 'fun"; a chance to hang out with other hams and enjoy the hobby. One ARRL Official once said, "They give points; so it must be a contest !".  Not necessarily so.

After 38 years in the hobby, I am by no means an "expert".  I try to learn something new whenever I can. Different viewpoints are always good to read and can sometimes change my thinking.  This forum is a good place to share ideas and teach old dogs new tricks.

We all have different reasons for being in this hobby and different goals in operating PSK.   PODXS 070 unites us in those reasons and the "contests" (10-10 calls their contests , "QSO Parties)  keep us active and hopefully having fun.



Jerry  N9AVY

(Probably could write more, but I need to get my butt off to work!)


From: "'John Etling' john@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?

 
“Sorry to stir the pot by letting the mind indulge in daydreams. I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST".
have a good evening
Barry”
 
SECONDED!!!
 
I get tired of everything being a “contest.” I purposefully and normally avoid the bands where contesting is going on and rarely participate in them either. Most PODXS070 contests clearly state, for the most part, no more than 50 watts. Ever see a station from, say, MAINE on a band where contacts are a little tough due to conditions then this BIG gun walks in and completely blows the waterfall away. (Using this as a reference only as do not even know any 070 ops in ME so please do not be offended) . Now your gonna convince me he ain’t running full radio power or more? This after seeing sigs from say NY, CT, VT and most of them are coming in about equal strength.
 
PROVE the ME station is NOT overpowering the rules as it were. Of course lids like that will dominate the band every time leaving me  no choice but to leave, he owns it and knows full well he owns it.
 
OK enough soapboxing… I have been reading the bantering back and forth and I see a plethora of excellent points.
 
My final take… allow the “meeting” to begin, welcome all, converse with all. Have a secret handshake amongst members – I know Jerry was joking but why not do something unique and give out 070 numbers backwards? Those with 070 numbers where it makes no difference (ex 313, 323, 333, etc. then so be it). I side more with the “old philosophy” of follow the rules to the letter however I do not necessarily disagree fully with the new ideas either.  Come to a middle ground, follow those rules, and have fun.
 
Why must a “membership” drive goal attainment meet with awards and all that. Bew proud you did your part in building the club. THAT alone should be award enough.
 
73 de K3JAE
John
 



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Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

John Etling
 

“Sorry to stir the pot by letting the mind indulge in daydreams. I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST".

have a good evening

Barry”

 

SECONDED!!!

 

I get tired of everything being a “contest.” I purposefully and normally avoid the bands where contesting is going on and rarely participate in them either. Most PODXS070 contests clearly state, for the most part, no more than 50 watts. Ever see a station from, say, MAINE on a band where contacts are a little tough due to conditions then this BIG gun walks in and completely blows the waterfall away. (Using this as a reference only as do not even know any 070 ops in ME so please do not be offended) . Now your gonna convince me he ain’t running full radio power or more? This after seeing sigs from say NY, CT, VT and most of them are coming in about equal strength.

 

PROVE the ME station is NOT overpowering the rules as it were. Of course lids like that will dominate the band every time leaving me  no choice but to leave, he owns it and knows full well he owns it.

 

OK enough soapboxing… I have been reading the bantering back and forth and I see a plethora of excellent points.

 

My final take… allow the “meeting” to begin, welcome all, converse with all. Have a secret handshake amongst members – I know Jerry was joking but why not do something unique and give out 070 numbers backwards? Those with 070 numbers where it makes no difference (ex 313, 323, 333, etc. then so be it). I side more with the “old philosophy” of follow the rules to the letter however I do not necessarily disagree fully with the new ideas either.  Come to a middle ground, follow those rules, and have fun.

 

Why must a “membership” drive goal attainment meet with awards and all that. Bew proud you did your part in building the club. THAT alone should be award enough.

 

73 de K3JAE

John

 




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Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

well, context is everything Steve. the UNDERLYING discussion has been, yes, about new contests, but primarily about the required exchange in such contests and consideration of why we have closed contests.

My comment about the checker was in response to Barry who, quite logically I might add, suggested that in a CLOSED contest, there is no credit for non-members so there is no need to add member #'s to the adif field. The Contest Scorer can sort that out.

One of the problems with this Club is that when there is some new thought put forward, the 'old hands' come out and start throwing cold water on the new suggestions. I say bunk on that ! Despite that practice, the Club has leaped ahead with tons of improvements and new ideas. I can't tell you how many times David and I emailed (years ago) why the scorer was not being used for contests. Now, it has happened, again, a logical progression.

I stand by my previous post about the inconsistencies in the various events, as to the exchange. If you are offend, too bad. I happen to be correct on the exchange issue (as evidenced by the 31 Flavors event).

I'm done now on this. You and the other 'experts' can hash it out. Healthy discussion is one thing, but I'm tired of you so called 'experts' telling us how it should be ! I will pick the open events to spend my time.

K7TRK said that..


Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

boat.anchor@...
 

Sorry to stir the pot by letting the mind indulge in daydreams. I was thinking more of a membership drive to commemorate the achievement rather than a "CONTEST".
have a good evening
Barry



---In 070@..., <boat.anchor@...> wrote :

Ya know what?
I am still thinking about what Ted said before the last "contest" regarding checking member numbers before submitting the log. (bit like a terrier with a bone)
I would like to suggest the following. Since we know the callsign of our contact and a simple click fills in the name and QTH, and a just-as-simple cross check with the member roster supplies that number, maybe we should try to just make as many contacts as possible to promote the club. No required exchange, just log those contacts and members worth one point, non-members two points because of time required to convince them that they really want to be part of the pre-eminent organization in ham radio digi modes. Someone suggested a month later that the checker apply bonus points to anyone that worked a station that becomes a member.
This would take the onus off us to record all that already known data and put the work onto David as to how to do the bonus scoring.
ps: maybe I should try not to think so much.
time to go enjy the sun and 56F day out there
Barry


Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Steve W3HF
 

Ted -

I'm glad to hear that you weren't advocating lowering the "standard." And you're right, some of that "extraneous information" does meet the criterion I quoted--that's not what I was talking about.

But I disagree that this was "off the subject." Although the specific thread was the "newbie sprint", the larger discussion (including "2015 in 2015" and back to messages on the St Pat's contest) included comments like:

- "check the member numbers before submitting the log" That could be interpreted as including QSOs for which the exchange that is submitted in the ADIF is not what was received on the air.

- "let David's checker do the work"  If David's checker inserts known data (like member numbers) into required fields, then it's just as bad.

Now if the context for those comments was "let's change the rules to remove this information from the required exchange", then that is a valid discussion. But if that's the case, then there's no need to "let David's checker do the work" (since it wouldn't even be looking for those ADIF fields), or to "check the member number before submitting the log" for the same reason. And then I don't understand why those suggestions were even made.

Steve
 
 
On 03/24/15, Ted pegduck56@... [070]<070@...> wrote:
 


Steve, this is all well and good, but essentially off the subject. We have been talking about 070 events that may require extraneous information (and my opinion, which is just as good as yours, by the way) for an valid exchange. No one is trying to shortcut the elements for an exchange as outlined in the QST article. (usually a signal report and S/P/C)

to illustrate how some of the 070 events are inconsistent, consider this;

the Club currently holds 9 events (per the website)

Only 3 events require a member number as part of the exchange

of those 3, only 2 give no credit for non-members  (logically, if those rules remain, the member number is required in the exchange

the 3rd event that requires member number is the 31 Flavors, YET the event gives you credit for non-members. In this case the member number is irrelevant.

My point in all this the Club offers 2 'members only' events out of 9. Why? this is inconsistent.

I am in favor of all Club events being open and all contacts score points. If we do this, there is no need for any exchange other than the standard that is generally accepted in the ham community, ie. call, sig report, S/P/C and likely a name. (if one wishes to add more such as courtesy phrases that is optional but not required). The only exception that I can see is the Valentines Sprint requires the addition of YL or OM but these are not adif fields.

no one is advocating 'lowering the standards of the club'. The rules sticklers in the club should have no more say than the practical members.

73, Ted
K7TRK



Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

Steve, this is all well and good, but essentially off the subject. We have been talking about 070 events that may require extraneous information (and my opinion, which is just as good as yours, by the way) for an valid exchange. No one is trying to shortcut the elements for an exchange as outlined in the QST article. (usually a signal report and S/P/C)

to illustrate how some of the 070 events are inconsistent, consider this;

the Club currently holds 9 events (per the website)

Only 3 events require a member number as part of the exchange

of those 3, only 2 give no credit for non-members  (logically, if those rules remain, the member number is required in the exchange

the 3rd event that requires member number is the 31 Flavors, YET the event gives you credit for non-members. In this case the member number is irrelevant.

My point in all this the Club offers 2 'members only' events out of 9. Why? this is inconsistent.

I am in favor of all Club events being open and all contacts score points. If we do this, there is no need for any exchange other than the standard that is generally accepted in the ham community, ie. call, sig report, S/P/C and likely a name. (if one wishes to add more such as courtesy phrases that is optional but not required). The only exception that I can see is the Valentines Sprint requires the addition of YL or OM but these are not adif fields.

no one is advocating 'lowering the standards of the club'. The rules sticklers in the club should have no more say than the practical members.

73, Ted
K7TRK


Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Jerry N9AVY
 

Steve:

Good points !   But you forgot to tell everyone I was sending my #070 backwards !


   Jerry N9AVY


From: "w3hf@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?

 
(Sorry, this one is going to be long.)

With all due respect...

Admittedly, the purpose of a radio contest is to make contacts. But the devil is in the details, and the "detail" that we need to focus on is what is the definition of "contact" for this purpose? 

I know I've quoted this a few times before on this reflector, but for general use I like the definition that was published in QST many years ago in the "The World Above 50 Mc" column, and then republished a few times since 2000 in the successor "The World Above 50 Mhz." It states something to the effect of "the transmission, reception, and acknowledgement of station callsigns and (at least) one other piece of information that is reasonably unknown to the receiving station." Often this is a signal report (though "courtesy 59s [or 599s]" are so common that their use might be debatable). But it could also be QTH, name, favorite color, whatever. 

[Side note #1: in this age of Internet-enabled databases, it's common to see that the person whose CQ I've just responded to comes back to me with "Hello Stephen J Melachrinos in Collegeville PA"! So much for name and QTH being "reasonably unknown."]

Since contest organizers define the rules for their contests, they get to make the definition of the minimum information transfer for contest QSOs, just like those who issue awards get to define what counts for them. And that definition is "the exchange."

Since the context for this discussion is radio, I would submit that "the exchange" is supposed to be transmitted, received, and acknowledged via radio. For a contact to count as a QSO point for a contest, the exchange defined by the contest organizers must be exchanged on the air. If I were to respond to N9AVY and say "Don't bother sending me your exchange because I already know your name is Jerry, you live in Illinois, and your 070 number is 454. Just say 73 and get out of my way", then I haven't followed the rules of the contest and I shouldn't count the QSO. (I've also been pretty rude.)

[Side note #2: How many of you logged a QSO last weekend with N9AVY as Jerry, and not the name he was actually using? Or noticed that occasionally during a contest, you'll find someone routinely sending 589 reports instead of 599?]

The 070 club has not (to my knowledge) established a "minimum required exchange" for routine QSOs to count for its awards. That means, for example, that we don't have to exchange member numbers on the air to have the QSO count for LONP. (This is unlike the 10-10 organization, which if I'm not mistaken says that name, qth and number must be in the on-the-air exchange.) But they do establish an exchange required for the contests, and if I use other databases to "fill in" some of that data, then I've cheated. 

Let's also be careful that our club rules do not degenerate to the point where our "QSOs" don't meet even the general definition I referenced at the beginning. If we do, then I question whether we should still call ourselves a radio club.

Steve
W3HF 

 



Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Steve W3HF
 

(Sorry, this one is going to be long.)

With all due respect...

Admittedly, the purpose of a radio contest is to make contacts. But the devil is in the details, and the "detail" that we need to focus on is what is the definition of "contact" for this purpose? 

I know I've quoted this a few times before on this reflector, but for general use I like the definition that was published in QST many years ago in the "The World Above 50 Mc" column, and then republished a few times since 2000 in the successor "The World Above 50 Mhz." It states something to the effect of "the transmission, reception, and acknowledgement of station callsigns and (at least) one other piece of information that is reasonably unknown to the receiving station." Often this is a signal report (though "courtesy 59s [or 599s]" are so common that their use might be debatable). But it could also be QTH, name, favorite color, whatever. 

[Side note #1: in this age of Internet-enabled databases, it's common to see that the person whose CQ I've just responded to comes back to me with "Hello Stephen J Melachrinos in Collegeville PA"! So much for name and QTH being "reasonably unknown."]

Since contest organizers define the rules for their contests, they get to make the definition of the minimum information transfer for contest QSOs, just like those who issue awards get to define what counts for them. And that definition is "the exchange."

Since the context for this discussion is radio, I would submit that "the exchange" is supposed to be transmitted, received, and acknowledged via radio. For a contact to count as a QSO point for a contest, the exchange defined by the contest organizers must be exchanged on the air. If I were to respond to N9AVY and say "Don't bother sending me your exchange because I already know your name is Jerry, you live in Illinois, and your 070 number is 454. Just say 73 and get out of my way", then I haven't followed the rules of the contest and I shouldn't count the QSO. (I've also been pretty rude.)

[Side note #2: How many of you logged a QSO last weekend with N9AVY as Jerry, and not the name he was actually using? Or noticed that occasionally during a contest, you'll find someone routinely sending 589 reports instead of 599?]

The 070 club has not (to my knowledge) established a "minimum required exchange" for routine QSOs to count for its awards. That means, for example, that we don't have to exchange member numbers on the air to have the QSO count for LONP. (This is unlike the 10-10 organization, which if I'm not mistaken says that name, qth and number must be in the on-the-air exchange.) But they do establish an exchange required for the contests, and if I use other databases to "fill in" some of that data, then I've cheated. 

Let's also be careful that our club rules do not degenerate to the point where our "QSOs" don't meet even the general definition I referenced at the beginning. If we do, then I question whether we should still call ourselves a radio club.

Steve
W3HF 

 


Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

yep, Barry gets it...why use a rotary dial phone instead of push button!  David's scorer works for free...let's make it do the work

60 hear Barry, finally got some rain, but it looks like we get no snow this year. Did you get snow in NVancouver ??

73, Ted
k7TRK



On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:54 PM, "boat.anchor@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Ya know what?
I am still thinking about what Ted said before the last "contest" regarding checking member numbers before submitting the log. (bit like a terrier with a bone)
I would like to suggest the following. Since we know the callsign of our contact and a simple click fills in the name and QTH, and a just-as-simple cross check with the member roster supplies that number, maybe we should try to just make as many contacts as possible to promote the club. No required exchange, just log those contacts and members worth one point, non-members two points because of time required to convince them that they really want to be part of the pre-eminent organization in ham radio digi modes. Someone suggested a month later that the checker apply bonus points to anyone that worked a station that becomes a member.
This would take the onus off us to record all that already known data and put the work onto David as to how to do the bonus scoring.
ps: maybe I should try not to think so much.
time to go enjy the sun and 56F day out there
Barry



---In 070@..., wrote :

agree, Joe, but serial number is irrelevant. It is just another hassle to log, like the member number. I think all events should be 'open' with simple basic exchanges.
73, Ted
K7TRK



On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:41 PM, "'ljl2002@...' joe_molon@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Good idea to invite non-members into the contest.  They will see what fun it is and maybe join.

The exchange for non-members could be 599 and a serial number (001,002 etc) in place of a member number.
EPC does that and it seems to work.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482





Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Jerry N9AVY
 

I think giving non-members  2 pts  would not encourage them to join. Just the opposite would happen... why join PODXS when you would lose a point by joining ??? It seems counterproductive. Not an incentive to join PODXS.

Jerry  N9AVY


From: "boat.anchor@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?

 
Ya know what?
I am still thinking about what Ted said before the last "contest" regarding checking member numbers before submitting the log. (bit like a terrier with a bone)
I would like to suggest the following. Since we know the callsign of our contact and a simple click fills in the name and QTH, and a just-as-simple cross check with the member roster supplies that number, maybe we should try to just make as many contacts as possible to promote the club. No required exchange, just log those contacts and members worth one point, non-members two points because of time required to convince them that they really want to be part of the pre-eminent organization in ham radio digi modes. Someone suggested a month later that the checker apply bonus points to anyone that worked a station that becomes a member.
This would take the onus off us to record all that already known data and put the work onto David as to how to do the bonus scoring.
ps: maybe I should try not to think so much.
time to go enjy the sun and 56F day out there
Barry



---In 070@..., wrote :

agree, Joe, but serial number is irrelevant. It is just another hassle to log, like the member number. I think all events should be 'open' with simple basic exchanges.
73, Ted
K7TRK



On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:41 PM, "'ljl2002@...' joe_molon@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Good idea to invite non-members into the contest.  They will see what fun it is and maybe join.

The exchange for non-members could be 599 and a serial number (001,002 etc) in place of a member number.
EPC does that and it seems to work.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482





Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

boat.anchor@...
 

Ya know what?
I am still thinking about what Ted said before the last "contest" regarding checking member numbers before submitting the log. (bit like a terrier with a bone)
I would like to suggest the following. Since we know the callsign of our contact and a simple click fills in the name and QTH, and a just-as-simple cross check with the member roster supplies that number, maybe we should try to just make as many contacts as possible to promote the club. No required exchange, just log those contacts and members worth one point, non-members two points because of time required to convince them that they really want to be part of the pre-eminent organization in ham radio digi modes. Someone suggested a month later that the checker apply bonus points to anyone that worked a station that becomes a member.
This would take the onus off us to record all that already known data and put the work onto David as to how to do the bonus scoring.
ps: maybe I should try not to think so much.
time to go enjy the sun and 56F day out there
Barry



---In 070@..., <pegduck56@...> wrote :

agree, Joe, but serial number is irrelevant. It is just another hassle to log, like the member number. I think all events should be 'open' with simple basic exchanges.
73, Ted
K7TRK



On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:41 PM, "'ljl2002@...' joe_molon@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Good idea to invite non-members into the contest.  They will see what fun it is and maybe join.

The exchange for non-members could be 599 and a serial number (001,002 etc) in place of a member number.
EPC does that and it seems to work.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482



Re: How about a "newbie" sprint?

Ted <pegduck56@...>
 

agree, Joe, but serial number is irrelevant. It is just another hassle to log, like the member number. I think all events should be 'open' with simple basic exchanges.
73, Ted
K7TRK



On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:41 PM, "'ljl2002@...' joe_molon@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
Good idea to invite non-members into the contest.  They will see what fun it is and maybe join.

The exchange for non-members could be 599 and a serial number (001,002 etc) in place of a member number.
EPC does that and it seems to work.

Joe
KA1PPV  #1482



On Monday, March 23, 2015 7:31 AM, "'John Etling' john@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:


 
ROTFLMAO – Excellent point!!
 
73 de K3JAE
 

From: Mike Flowers mike.flowers@... [070] [mailto:070@...]
Sent: 22 March, 2015 19:14
To: 070@...
Subject: RE: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?
 
 
But that would put many non-English speaking countries at a severe disadvantage:
 Montag, Dienstag, Mittwoch …
 Lundi, mardi, mercredi, juedi …
 Понедельник, вторник, среда
 Δευτέρα, Τρίτη, Τετάρτη …
 Just saying …
 - 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, President - NCDXC
 
From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 4:32 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: Re: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?
 
 
 

From: "Mike Flowers mike.flowers@... [070]" <070@...>
To: 070@...
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?
 
 
Another option is that all new members who joined in 2015 are worth the bonus points.  ....  But only on days with "Y" .


 
- 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, President - NCDXC
 
 
From: 070@... [mailto:070@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 3:50 PM
To: 070@...
Subject: [070] How about a "newbie" sprint?
 
 
I just thought of something (watch out!)  How about every year have a sprint where new members count 3 points (those that have joined in the last calender year), members count 2 points, and non-members 1? Just an idea.  I know we have a contest just about every month, but let's think it out.

Les k4lea 1746 lonp 272
On 3/22/2015 17:39, John Bower poppajohnbower@... [070] wrote:
 
Good afternoon
No really dramatic thoughts.
Name could be "Celebrating 2015 in 2015"
Might be a chance to encourage PSK31  on a variety of bands:
Maybe a skewed points loading - 20 & 40m 1 Point,  10m 2 points, 15m 3 points
80m 4 points ans 160m 6 points.
Bonus points for out of continental USA
Two Categories Max 50w and QRP 5w
Look forward to playing.
John KE4JB
 
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Ted pegduck56@... [070] <070@...> wrote:
 
Amen, Jerry
de K7TRK
 
 
On Saturday, March 21, 2015 8:20 PM, "Jerry n9avy@... [070]" <070@...> wrote:
 
 
IMHO,   making contests open to non=members would encourage the to become members.   Much like 10-10 does by allowing 2 pts  for members, but only 1 pt for non-members. Doing this would make non-members feel as though they mattered.  I've always thought that "members only" contests were too exclusive and somehow held membership numbers down.
 
Just my opinion for what it's worth.
 
Jerry  N9AVY
 

From: "'Mike Miller' lists@... [070]" <070@...>
To: "Matthew King - KK4CPS mrk.twg@... [070]" <070@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [070] Re: "2015 in 2015" Special Event
 
 
Having the member number in the required exchange makes it a
private party unless you let non members use 0000 or some such.
It might be nice to encourage prospective members to give the
club contests a try.

73
Mike kc9doa #1040

On 21 Mar 2015 at 21:58, Matthew King - KK4CPS mrk.twg@...
[ wrote:

> I haven't fully ferreted out the rules yet, but if the member #
> is part
> of
> the required exchange, don't worry! You can simply cut/copy it
> from the
> QSO
> with your mouse and paste it in your loggers
> comment/remark/note field
> if
> you're having trouble finding the SRX field. In version 6 HRD,
> by the
> way,
> the SRX field in the ADIF file is populated by the value in the
> RCVD
> EXCHG
> box, next to the RCVD RST box on the ALE. Maybe that'll help
> some HRD
> users
 
 
 
 
 



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