Re: Losing 30M

John Frederick <jafrederick@...>

Guys FT8 signals out number psk/cw/ssb 10:1 in numbers count. Go to Club Log and look at the FT8 to other ratio. You can yell and scream about an arrogant software developer, but he had to choose something. Since there weren’t a lot of PSK traces on the waterfall the rest is history. My simple observations are that it is the same 6 stations on PSK, I love operating PSK and try to use it, but FT8 is more popular period. You can’t change that. I was first licensed in the 70’s when hams rag chewed and nets were on 75m with all the alligators. Now nets are everywhere and everybody just wants their signal report and a contact on LOTW. You can site the thousands of documents that identify the PSK frequencies, but it doesn’t matter! We took CW frequencies because PSK was more popular, and how many of you are no-code licensees, now FT8 is more popular and we lose. You all know that is how the world works, think about it. We don’t want you here in the United States unless your a Doctor from India. Winners and losers folks, FT8 won. Like the man said, just the facts!

On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

That’s true bck in the 50’s the AM had a major “war” with SSBers and SSB eventually won out.  It was because of bandwidth… AM takes up twice the spectrum that SSB does.  Today AM signals are few and far between. Was there in late 50’s and saw it happen.


Jerry  n9avy


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: John Frederick via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the AM guys said the same thing about SSB in 1950. FT8 is more popular operating mode than PSK so we lose out because of simple numbers. Get over it, move your PSK operation somewhere else and get the CW guys mad like we did when we took over 7.040. I know this is not popular, but it is reality. I have been trying to operate PSK for the past couple of months with no contacts. Please move on.


John, N8GOU

On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...> wrote:

Yes, the “Gentlemen’s Agreements” were set up by the ARRL back when it saw Amateur Radio in a different light.

These agreements were a way for Amateurs to live in relative harmony on the bands and it worked well until the present when ARRL jumped on the FT8 bandwagon and started promoting FT modes as a means to work DX, grids, etc. 


This has caused a blatant disregard for other modes and has created a “CB mentality” that FT mode operators can operate anywhere they please. This was another ARRL created disaster in the vein of “incentive licensing”.


Today, ARRL is trying to do “damage control” because they are losing members at a faster pace than expected. Of the 620,000 U.S. hams only about 152,000 are ARRL members.  Some life members are even regretting the choice and have admitted it publicly.  Since I dropped ARRL membership about 2 years ago , I am bombarded monthly with “special offers” on membership like join today and received this ARRL book free or 3 months free membership !  These arrive 2-3 times a month in my email or vi snail mail.   My guess is that ARRL is in trouble. Add to this that many new hams don’t feel the need to join ARRL and it translates to declining membership.


Back to the present discussion …  There are several cases of violations of FCC Part 97 (available on line) which are violations, depending on interpretation.  One of the frequent ones I see regularly is the failure to ID when signing out of a QSO.  This also applies to PSK31.  Quite often I will be copying the mail and see a station simply end with “73” and no call sign – a violation. The rule is at beginning and end of transmission plus every 10 minutes in between.  No excuse, just sloppy, ignorant operators. Perhaps this will change with new FCC connected program, but seems doubtful.


So, not much can be done with the FT modes “violators”  except try to fill our portion of bands with activity and hope it chases many away from these “incursions”.  Setting up beacons might be a possible solution, BUT that would be just plain old illegal since automatic control of beacons below 10 meters is NOT allowed. (Just in case anyone had that thought.)


So, the only alternative left is to live with the FT modes until some legislation comes down from FCC…  that will probably be never.


Jerry  n9avy





Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: W5DP
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [070Club] Losing 30M


These gentlemen’s agreements were setup and promoted by the ARRL. Right? It seems to that’s the way it is. I have a chart from the ARRL where the different modes are acceptable in the different portions of the band.


Question is: How many ppl are members of the ARRL? Are they losing memberships? Maybe that is why there is so much disinterest in the gentlemen’s agreements for the different modes.


Not sure I’m right on this, someone can fact check me.








Join to automatically receive all group messages.